To think that many sahms don't consider the long-term implications when deciding to give up work? ***this is not a sahm vs wohm debate***

[wannaBe]

This is not a thread criticizing anyone or their decisions...

When I decided to give up work to bring up DS, I did so in the knowledge that for me, staying at home with my dc was the best thing. We were fortunate as well in that financially we could afford for me to stay at home.

Back then, I had in mind that we would have two children, so realistically would have at least eight years at home until the youngest started school, and even then, going back to work wouldn't necessarily be something I would consider as would want to be there for after school/holidays etc, and finding a job that fits in with the above is almost impossible.

So, fast forward nine years and the two children we'd planned to have turned out to only be one, and I've been a sahm for that long, although I have done volunteering in that time (reading/helping in school/chair of governors/PTA etc...) so haven't been sat on my arse as such (although the amount of time I've spent on mn does contradict that statement somewhat, )

Now I'm in a position where I want to go back to work. Actually, I've been in that position for about the past 1.5/2 years but due to circumstances such as moving areas etc have only just been able to start exploring the possibility seriously.

And I've come to a realization which, although I guess I knew deep down, I never contemplated until now. Even if you take the fact that there are very few jobs for far too many applicants in the current climate, the one thing that employers seem to want above anything else is experience, and current experience at that.

And if you haven't worked for a number of years then the reality is that they will take the person who has worked more recently, every time. And as employers currently have the pick of applicants (regardless of who you are) the chances of getting a job in the current climate if you've been bringing up your children for the past however many years is minimal.

So what I've basically realized is that being a sahm has made me unemployable.

I don't regret my decision for a second. You can't ever get that time with your children again and I'm glad that I had that opportunity and took it.

But in retrospect I do wonder whether I should have sought even a part time work opportunity sooner - even if it was something minimal.

And equally I realize that you can't tell someone who is just choosing to give up work to be with their children that they may find that they're unemployable ten years down the line when the kids are at school and they want to go back to work again without seeming like you're criticizing their decision/lifestyle.

When we make decisions we often do so in the here and now, not necessarily with the future in mind - not for ourselves anyway.

I think employmentwise anyone who is currently out of work for any reason has it extremely hard anyway.

The thought of never working again for the next 30 years is frankly rather depressing...

"And yes thats sad- but is surely an argument for couples sharing the earning and caring responsibilities so that they both get to the end of their adult life feeling neither have missed out on caring or career."

Would dearly love to do this with DH, but high pressure management jobs are hard to do part-time.

"childminders and nurseries Aren't quite as good for a child as being with their mother all day"

Well - I don't think they are. If the mother and child enjoy being together. I have yet to meet anyone who my children enjoy spending more time with than me or DH. For my children it's a quality of life issue. Now that they're old enough to express a preference - they are adamant that they don't want to do after school club and prefer to be at home. And I sympathise. I would have hated to have been on school premises as a child from 8am to 6pm Monday to Friday. So
yes - career is a bit crap and will probably have to live on crusts in old age. But when it comes to my children having a really happy childhood, I'm at peace with myself.

Maybe they'd feel differently if they went to an outstanding private school with super-posh facilities and cuddly staff. Or had Mary Poppins or my mum around every day to keep them happy before and after school.

cherry I've said this several times before on MN: I had a nanny as a child, as my parents both worked, and I actually think in many ways it was better for me than having my mum (or dad) at home full time. My mum was good at some things, my nanny at others, so I got variety and the best of both worlds.

I also think some of my friends with SAHMs were "helicopter parented" and are now less close to their mums as a result - because they see their mothers as clingy. Not saying that is the case with every SAHM of course.

My point is that a full time SAHM is not always the best option for every child. It depends on the individual child and the individual parents.

Oh and my mum doesn't regret working at all. She didn't miss me growing up - she saw me every everning and weekends and holidays. We were and are exceptionally close. She enjoyed her job and was good at it and it helped pay for me to have an excellent education and lovely home to grow up in.

Shagmund- spectacularly missing the point again!
Its not that children prefer spending time with their childminder/ nanny/ teacher/ grandparent. Its about the variety- life is made up of different relationships and interactions. I prefer my husband to some relatives - but my life wouldn't be more enriching by spending 24/7 with him!!

Exactly callmemrs

actually I do totally agree with shagmunds post

I don't think she is missing the point callmemrs, I think she's hit the nail on the head

life is enriched by spending time with a variety of people, but as shagmund said, if her kids preferred spending their time with her or their dad rather than being in school before and after care from 8-6, then if she can work towards achieving this in her family, then that'll enrich her childrens lives more than spending a lot of their day with others

I feel as an adult I enjoy spending time with a wide variety of people as much as possible, but when I was at school and growing up, I just wanted to go home after school to my mum, I liked seeing friends and did a few clubs but at the end of the day it was being with my family that made me feel secure and happy

its a very personnel subject, like all parenting I suppose

This was SUCH an interesting thread - with some really good debate and sharing of experiences.

The defensive justifications of personal decisions as to whether to go out to work - much less interesting and pretty circular.

a thread such as this does become personal quite easily as all we can share/discuss are our personal decisions

if you find that uninteresting secrecy, thats fine

Yes ssd- but shagmund is talking about her children and her particular after school club. It simply can't be extrapolated from that, that all children are less happy attending after school clubs or care.

That was my point earlier about not comparing like with like. The op has raised some really interesting issues which are based on fact- eg women out of the work

Whoops! Out of the workplace will by definition lose out on pensions and will have less experience to draw on when reapplying for jobs. By saying 'my children don't like childcare ' is not balancing that with facts, but with subjective opinion.

Hmmm.... Maybe I haven't expressed what I wanted to say very clearly.

This thread was refreshing and different because it wasn't "My decision was the best - the opposing view is wrong / selfish / foolish etc etc". I agree that the debate gets very personal and therefore emotional (and circular) as it is so easy to feel a personal 'attack' when someone is defending a different decision to ours.

But this was talking about the effects of time off on careers rather than the 'rights or wrongs' of making the decision to work or not.

'Twas all!

Exactly secrecy! What is particularly useful is that the op was simply reflecting on how things had turned out for her, and saying that she hadn't fully appreciated some of the consequences of being out of the workplace for a number of years. It is an important issue- especially bearing in mind the fact that a frightening number of women do not have financial or provision for the long term

but callmemrs, surely you are talking about your children and your experiences too, the same as shagmund is?

as, I said before, this is very personal to all of us, but all any of us can go on is our own experience, everything else is just hearsay

Ssd- yes, absolutely! My choices are about what is good for me and my family. I have never tried to suggest anything else.
My recent posts have been countering those which have deflected the thread from its original purpose, by moving into the realms of 'well of course the downsides of working are that children dont enjoy childcare' or 'well of course you will regret the fact that you didn't spend every day with your children' . Those are just subjective opinions.

I have never tried to claim that being a working parent is 'better'. I dont think it makes my children any 'better' - or any 'worse'. I am simply sticking to the facts that working is good for my income, my pension and my state of mind!

Wannabe - you are in a pretty impossible position by the sound of things. :(

I'm also significantly sight impaired. I gave up my job when dd was born and knew within a few months I'd made a huge mistake. (but there was no going back). I was lucky enough to find another job just before dd was 2. I did 6 months full time, then asked to work from home one day a week. Then dropped to 4 days a week with a day at home to get the compromise I needed. I would NEVER have got a part time job from the start. My physical health has really suffered trying to be all things to all people, (and those first 6months full time with a significant commute were a killer!) But my mental health is much improved and dd is far more well balanced with a variety of people providing her child care (she was completely non verbal at home with me but was speaking sentences within weeks of my friend childminding her)

It's tough to get someone to consider you if you've been out of work caring for a child but it's infinitely tougher to get someone to consider you for a job if you have a disability and aren't actually doing a similar job currently. I honestly think your only option in the current climate is to work for yourself.

There are some gaps in the market now the charities have been culled. I have just employed a lady to help me with dd's DLA, the same lady who helped me for free through action for blind people until last February. But she isn't earning enough free lance to support herself and has other part time work. And she isn't disabled..... (and she only gets paid if claim is successful and DLA seem to be refusing everyone on principle no matter what!)

I don't think you'd make much money in recruitment for the disabled either I'm afraid with the job the way it is :(

I don't know the answer unfortunately.... Hopefully you can turn your skills/talents into something commercial. On the plus side, if you can you can work flexibly from the start!

Good luck!

Lots of really interesting viewpoints on this thread, hope we can keep it away from the SAHM / WOHM debate

Just wanted to give a success story. After reading this thread last week I felt quite depressed as I have had just over 4 years off. I was already thinking I would find it hard to get another job. Well I applied last week for an ideal part-time job, had an interview yesterday and had call today to say I got the job. 2 days a week, quite flexible on times I do, so can work around pre-school etc. Not quite up there with what I did before but is local and hours are great so no long commute.

Also re the volunteering - I have been volunteering at an Heritage site as a room guide which does not really relate to what I do work wise but I think it helped (well was mentioned) in me getting this job so I do think it is worthwhile.

All the best to everyone looking

well done castle, hope the new job goes well!

Just wanted to say it is not just SAHM I have many friends and DP who have recently graduated (within 7 years)and finding/found it very difficult to get a job because of no experience. On average they took about two years to find a job that they were over qualified for because everyone wants experience and they had none. Most had to do volunteer or agency work. Sadly I think that people place so much importance on experience (which to be fair is important)that they forget the advantages of employing someone new to the job E.G new ideas and no preconceptions the employee can be taught to do the job exactly how you want to.

I have had two rejections already today. Feeling like a right reject now, and wishing I'd had benefit of this thread a few years ago. So bumping in case it helps anyone else make an informed decision.

As others have said, I dont see why it has to be the mother who bears the brunt of fulltime parenting. I am ahospital doctor and had a year off with each of.my 2 Dcs. Between maternity leaves and for 2 years after the birth of Dd I worked only 2 days a week.However when dd was going to be 3,I hadnt been working proprly for 5 yearsI went back fulltime.Initially we had a.nanny but in the end we.decided we wanted them to have one of us at home. So dh had a career break for 2 years, while I worked hard to get my career back on track.

Last year dh said he felt like he was losing touch. Now.both DCs are at school, we both work and spend some time at home during the week so they are taken and picked up from school by us 4 days a week. Having done this at least we can feel.we have shared the consequences of SAHP. I know that we would.both be futher along in our careers had we not had children. But at least we still both have careers and we shared the responsibilty.

While I know it may not be the same for everybody and I may just have been lucky, can I just give you some hope and tell you all that being a SAHM is not always career suicide.

I am professionally qualified and left work to have DS when I was 28 then had DD at 30. From then on I took only part-time self-employed work, never more than 3 days a week and school hours only whenever possible. When my youngest went up to senior school I landed a part-time term-time job and now they are grown up I still work part time but am at much the same level as I would have reached if I had never stopped.

I was lucky that DH has a job he loves and earned enough for me to be part time (although I have to say it wasn't always easy). Obviously I have lost out in terms of pension but I have loved the time with DCs and have no regrets, I wouldn't change a thing.

All I am trying to say is don't always assume the worst because it may never happen. Other women I know have returned to work when children were teenagers and are doing well too so it does happen.

It never occurred to me when I gave up my job that I would ever be in a position of applying for literally hundreds of jobs 5 years on. I assumed i would always be employable.
circumstances change. I would have done things differently but i wouldn't have changed those 3 years.

I completely agree with you OP. I think the decision to become a SAHM should also bear in mind tha, in the meantime, you should make very serious plans to become self-employed when the children are a bit older because employers are likely to look askance at someone who has been out of the workforce for an extended period of time. As other PP's have said though, just the decision to have children at all makes you less desirable as an employee, regardless of whether you choose to remain in the workforce or not.