To think that many sahms don't consider the long-term implications when deciding to give up work? ***this is not a sahm vs wohm debate***

[wannaBe]

This is not a thread criticizing anyone or their decisions...

When I decided to give up work to bring up DS, I did so in the knowledge that for me, staying at home with my dc was the best thing. We were fortunate as well in that financially we could afford for me to stay at home.

Back then, I had in mind that we would have two children, so realistically would have at least eight years at home until the youngest started school, and even then, going back to work wouldn't necessarily be something I would consider as would want to be there for after school/holidays etc, and finding a job that fits in with the above is almost impossible.

So, fast forward nine years and the two children we'd planned to have turned out to only be one, and I've been a sahm for that long, although I have done volunteering in that time (reading/helping in school/chair of governors/PTA etc...) so haven't been sat on my arse as such (although the amount of time I've spent on mn does contradict that statement somewhat, )

Now I'm in a position where I want to go back to work. Actually, I've been in that position for about the past 1.5/2 years but due to circumstances such as moving areas etc have only just been able to start exploring the possibility seriously.

And I've come to a realization which, although I guess I knew deep down, I never contemplated until now. Even if you take the fact that there are very few jobs for far too many applicants in the current climate, the one thing that employers seem to want above anything else is experience, and current experience at that.

And if you haven't worked for a number of years then the reality is that they will take the person who has worked more recently, every time. And as employers currently have the pick of applicants (regardless of who you are) the chances of getting a job in the current climate if you've been bringing up your children for the past however many years is minimal.

So what I've basically realized is that being a sahm has made me unemployable.

I don't regret my decision for a second. You can't ever get that time with your children again and I'm glad that I had that opportunity and took it.

But in retrospect I do wonder whether I should have sought even a part time work opportunity sooner - even if it was something minimal.

And equally I realize that you can't tell someone who is just choosing to give up work to be with their children that they may find that they're unemployable ten years down the line when the kids are at school and they want to go back to work again without seeming like you're criticizing their decision/lifestyle.

When we make decisions we often do so in the here and now, not necessarily with the future in mind - not for ourselves anyway.

I think employmentwise anyone who is currently out of work for any reason has it extremely hard anyway.

The thought of never working again for the next 30 years is frankly rather depressing...

I am not delusional word factory. i am a 32 year old strong and intelligent woman so i don't wish to be patronised. i started writing my book 15 months ago and have managed to write whilst my youngest naps, in the evenings and at weekends etc. i also attended a couple of night classes. i am fully aware that once my novel is finished if it is good enough to be published then i will have to step up my hours and may need childcare.

my point was that i don't consider myself only as a mother. i am widely read and i believe i can write too. i have ideas. i may not have the same skills i had previously but i have gainef others.

Oops didn't mean to post that again. sorry

YABU. I have been a SAHM for over 10 years. I love it and have in that time studied and undertaken voluntary work. I should have my degree in a couple of years so have used the time to better my education. I know there are risks this way but I was willing to take them.

Hardgoing - I have absolutely no intention of becoming a dinner lady . I currently earn what a dinner lady earns in about a term and a half doing a job (piece-work) that takes about 5-6 hours per hit.

The dinner ladies at DD's school are either students (very occasionally) or people with very low level skills. I think the banker/lawyer/doctor-turned-dinner lady scenario is a little melodramatic

goldenbear it seemed to me that you werew projecting your defensiveness about SAHing because you seemed so determined to find a tone you did not like. Whereas what the thread was actually about was trying to find ways for women to keep or return to work.

There was some excellent advice actually. Certainly, upthread you'll find my own advice for what it's worth was that it is possible to have periods out of the workplace and return if you made adequate provisions during those periods.

As for advising about writing...well the point of this thred is to advise and this is one area I can safely speak on with some authority. I can say without any caveat that making a career in writing is not the same as SAHing. I've done both so I do lknow whereof I speak.

Sadly, far too many people think otherwise. The slushpiles are full to bursting with the work of SAHMs and the retired. And that doesn't even include the millions who have a book undee their bed that they haven't sent off.

I see making a career in writing much the same as I see returning to work after periods SAHing...perfectly doable but you must be serious and realisitic about what it will entail.

Bonsoir, I used to be a lawyer. I have 10 years experience. I have also been a sahm for 8 years and next year I am going to be a part time leaflet distributor and dinner lady.

Then I take back my previous post! But why fall so far? Do you live in the sticks?

Actually I think that many women who choose to be a SAHM do realise that if they SAHM for a number of years it will be very hard to get back into the workplace.

But they choose to do it anyway - because being a SAHM while their DC are small is so important to them. You could say that they choose to go with their preferred option for the short term, even though they know it will restrict their options in the long term.

The only other choice is to carry on working, even though they don't want to in the short term, so as to keep their options open in the longer term.

Neither is a particularly attractive option, both involve compromising one part of your life (the short or long term part) for the sake of the other part.

The only real solution is to change employer attitudes so that they don't think recent experience is so important, and they are more willing to consider ex-SAHMs as good employees. I don't see that happening any time soon though .

No, I don't live in the sticks. DH earns a lot. We also have a very healthy rental income that we could live on if DH were to lose his job. So we don't need more money. I however do need to exercise, hence leaflet distribution, (very part time, 3-4 hours per week) and dinner lady (thought it would be fun and only around 1.5 hours aday).

Well jasminerice you sound like you are enjoying yourself and getting paid to exercise is definitely the way forward

Jasmine; I think your plan sounds great Being a dinner lady would be quite fun and I've actually thought about getting a paper route because I like to be outside and running around. DH thinks it would be eccentric but I'm quite determined. Have also thought about being a postwoman but it's a heavily oversubscribed profession around these parts. The market is apparently flooded with would-be posties.

I'm really sorry - I haven't read the whole thread so am sure someone has already said this: But have you thought about working for yourself? Do you have any skills? The internet has made it so much easier to start up your own business with pretty low start up costs. It is much less difficult than you might imagine and there is plenty of support out there - all sorts of forums and networking groups. The trick is to come up with the idea. But you will have skills - just figure out what it is you can do that other people need.

I know someone who had 4 children as a young mum. Had been out of work for 20 years, except for helping her husband out a bit now and then in his business. She came up with a business idea and is now doing brilliantly. It is possible. Get your head around twitter, facebook and forums (you already know MN so that's a tick already!) - they are cheap ways of getting yourself started/marketed.

I have been at home with DC1 and DC2 for over 5 years now. It was only recently that it occurred to me how difficult it would be for me to find any job that was not minimum wage, despite my degree and previous work experience. Sounds naive doesn't it? I didn't listen to older women telling me to 'keep my hand in'. I was just totally absorbed with being a new mum and felt relieved to not have to go into the office 'for a while'. Well a while will now look more like 7 years by the time DC2 starts school! I have resigned myself to starting again at the bottom, or else being self-employed.

Don't know about this. On one hand you probably have a point particularly due to the financial climate. I have been off work for nearly 5 years now, and I'm having trouble convincing various people that I acutally don't want to work and have been pressured from 2 or 3 different people to take a job from them. I know that sounds impossibly smug but honestly I'm not there, don't want to do it yet, might one day but wish people could just accept that for now, I'm home.

I think most jobseekers will find work eventually, and failing that, find their niche that will lead to opportunities. But I might be on planet Tatty.

Lizzie and popbiscuit, thanks.

Bonsoir, what do you mean about falling? I was never 'up' so how can I now fall? Unless you were being insulting to leaflet distributors and dinner ladies who in your eyes are lowly creatures whilst lawyers are up with the gods?

I'm the same person whether my job is a lawyer or a dinner lady.

Tatty, I know what you mean. I'm happy being home too. Both kids are at school, but I'm never bored, never lack adult company, and could quite happily carry on like this for the foreseeable future. I'm content with what I've got I suppose. There's nothing 'missing'.

In reference to the post of Hardgoing's I was responding to, which was not about doing leaflet dropping or dinner-ladying for fun, as you are intending to do!

I can think of more entertaining ways to take exercise than leaflet dropping, however

jasminerice that is interesting to hear. I am behind you by a long way, and am a lawyer (pretty junior) and TTC our first. I feel like this whole thread is very pertinent to me, as I am in a temporary position (as are so many lawyers at the moment) so once I go off to have my children, I can't really see myself returning. I won't have my current job to go back to, and I will seriously struggle to get another job as a solicitor with my little experience, lack of client base etc. But I can't hold off TTC, waiting and waiting for a perm job that might never come. My aching womb won't let me. So I'm fairly signed up to the fact that realistically I won't work as a solicitor again once I go off.

I admire your attitude, I would like to have the self-belief that "I am who I am - no matter what I do." But I don't! I'm sad to say my job defines me, and I feel proud of myself - valuable, even - for having it. I was unemployed for 7 hellish months before I got this job, and worked a few hours a day as a nanny for a friend. It was great fun but I felt like a huge failure, my confidence and self-worth was zero. In your experience, is it being a mother that has helped you with your attitude? Or is that just you?

Hi Kitty, things are very different now for lawyers compared to when I started out, although there was also a recession when I left law school in 1992 and began my 2 year training contract. Perhaps I feel ok with who I am regardless of what job I do because I did work as a lawyer for 10 years before having DD in my mid thirties.

But, yes, I think my experience of being a mother has transformed me. I have found an inner self confidence and contentment with my life just as it is, but it has taken a while to get here.

I think it's entirely normal that to a certain degree ones self worth is wrapped up in your career. After all, there are many facets of life which contribute to ones self esteem. I spent my university years gaining an awful lot of knowledge and then subsequently trained in my particular field. I find my job stimulating and brings me' into situations I wouldn't otherwise encounter, and I enjoy it when I feel I've had particular challenges to rise to- so it would be strange if I didn't feel it was in some ways contributing to my self worth. I think the danger is when someone relies totally on one aspect of life- whether it's work, or having given birth, to provide their sense of worth. Surely its about balance?

wordfactory, I didn't interpret the OP's thread as entirely advice seeking,in fact she seems well aware of her predicament and the reality of job hunting when you've been a SAHM. She even said she had no regrets in doing so so why people always need to state the obvious, believing it to be helpful - comments implying the foresight they had in deciding to return to work after maternity leave doesn't really help the OP, it just rubs salt into the OP's wound!

There is indeed good advice on here, including from yourself if someone wants to be a writer but presumbly you can write at home so there is a certain amount of flexibility. Flexibility needs to be more widespread and accepted as the norm so that it is a realistic option for women to return to work but that isn't going to happen any time soon. Patriarchal working structures continue to exist and are reinforced by unimaginative men and women employers alike!

Theres always room for improvement but tbh there is more flexibility than in previous years. Professions which used to be closed to women are now accessible. People have a right to request flexible working. More job shares exist than in yesteryear. Childcare is more available and theres more choice. And its subsidised.' And maternity and paternity rights have improved beyond recognition - eg 9 month paid leave, Option of an extra 3 months. Wasn't that long ago it was 12 weeks. As I say- more could always be done, but frankly the situation has never been 'better to enable women to work.

jasminerice thanks for replying.

In a way I would like to work longer and have that as a significant portion of my life that I could rely on to bolster my confidence when needed. But I don't think it will work out that way, and I can make peace with that. I very very much value the work of SAH parents, so I am hopeful that I will find that portion of my life as satisfying as the work I currently do!

I think a lot will depend upon my DH as well - if I feel he appreciates me working at home as much as he appreciates me doing the 9-5, it will help.

It is flexible to some degree that's true.
When I do my core writing is to some extent up to me. And I try where I can to fix those hours around the DC's school days. It is far far more flexible than my previous career in law.

However, tI guess what I was trying to get at is that it does take an enormous amount of said hours and isn't feasible if you're determined to do all the other things SAHPs tend to or you are adamant that it won't affect your DC in any way. It's so absurdly time consuming and also it demands so much mental energy...

For me, the balancing act is worth it. Yes, my DC have to fit in around my commitments from time to time...but I think that's okay.

Hi Kitty, yes, I understand. And my DH's attitude does play a part. He very much appreciates and values me no matter what I do, so that does help. Although because I did work in a very well paid job for many years I was able to make a big financial contribution to our family and so perhaps I feel content to be at home as I essentially bought our house with my earnings pre DC's. DH wasn't earning much then but has quadrupled his earnings since.