To think that many sahms don't consider the long-term implications when deciding to give up work? ***this is not a sahm vs wohm debate***

[wannaBe]

This is not a thread criticizing anyone or their decisions...

When I decided to give up work to bring up DS, I did so in the knowledge that for me, staying at home with my dc was the best thing. We were fortunate as well in that financially we could afford for me to stay at home.

Back then, I had in mind that we would have two children, so realistically would have at least eight years at home until the youngest started school, and even then, going back to work wouldn't necessarily be something I would consider as would want to be there for after school/holidays etc, and finding a job that fits in with the above is almost impossible.

So, fast forward nine years and the two children we'd planned to have turned out to only be one, and I've been a sahm for that long, although I have done volunteering in that time (reading/helping in school/chair of governors/PTA etc...) so haven't been sat on my arse as such (although the amount of time I've spent on mn does contradict that statement somewhat, )

Now I'm in a position where I want to go back to work. Actually, I've been in that position for about the past 1.5/2 years but due to circumstances such as moving areas etc have only just been able to start exploring the possibility seriously.

And I've come to a realization which, although I guess I knew deep down, I never contemplated until now. Even if you take the fact that there are very few jobs for far too many applicants in the current climate, the one thing that employers seem to want above anything else is experience, and current experience at that.

And if you haven't worked for a number of years then the reality is that they will take the person who has worked more recently, every time. And as employers currently have the pick of applicants (regardless of who you are) the chances of getting a job in the current climate if you've been bringing up your children for the past however many years is minimal.

So what I've basically realized is that being a sahm has made me unemployable.

I don't regret my decision for a second. You can't ever get that time with your children again and I'm glad that I had that opportunity and took it.

But in retrospect I do wonder whether I should have sought even a part time work opportunity sooner - even if it was something minimal.

And equally I realize that you can't tell someone who is just choosing to give up work to be with their children that they may find that they're unemployable ten years down the line when the kids are at school and they want to go back to work again without seeming like you're criticizing their decision/lifestyle.

When we make decisions we often do so in the here and now, not necessarily with the future in mind - not for ourselves anyway.

I think employmentwise anyone who is currently out of work for any reason has it extremely hard anyway.

The thought of never working again for the next 30 years is frankly rather depressing...

It does make me sad that so many women believe that looking after children, home, family in general, is considered somehow inferior to working outside the home.

"I wonder what mothers who have given up on their careers so that their husbands can carry on theirs unimpeded tell their daughters about why it is worthwhile studying and getting qualifications?"

That in order to run your life in the modern world and to navigate its complexities, take your own data-driven decisions and be in control of your own destiny, you will need high-level skills whatever path you choose, and those high-level skills can only be acquired by pursuing education and gaining qualifications.

Not pursuing a FT career does not mean you give up on life

Not inferior Chandon - just not enough (for me personally, and I suspect for many others) to fill a whole life spanning 70-odd years.

Agree bramshott . And I'd add to that- looking after home and family are not discrete tasks that are clearly defined. It's something we all do, and is about relationships as much as anything. Sure, there are certain tasks which form part of that process- eg doing the laundry and getting the shopping in. But running a harmonious family and home is about SO much more than a set of tasks. And it doesn't require one adult not working to achieve it.

"And I'd add to that- looking after home and family are not discrete tasks that are clearly defined."

I disagree very strongly with this, and the reason I do is because I live in a blended family and, over the years, the discrete tasks of child rearing and home making become ever more apparent and defined. There are things that happen in one of the DSSs' homes that just don't occur in the other, and vice versa.

Family life is not a semi-conscious amorphous mess for all of us.

I expect most women and probably most men would love to spend relatively short periods away from the work place.

But as this thread has shown not many wanted it to be a permenant state of affairs. But sadly this becomes the case for so many many women.

I have adored the periods I have had away from the workplace both pre and post DC, but would I have wanted that to stretch to five, ten, twenty years? Absolutely not.

I think though Bonsoir that one can raise a fmaily very consciously without it being a full time affair.

I don't consider my home life a mess thanks bonsoir

Interesting to hear about your problems with your blended family. It must be very difficult For the children to cope with such differing values and systems in each of their families.

true Bonsoir.

One my DS has SEN as well as some medical issues, and there are quite a lot of appointments with SENCO's, doctors, Ed Psych etc.

I guess it is partly due to this that I feel nobody apart from DH or myself could look properly after him, although things are getting better now, and things are almost "normal" now....if managed well. Even with DH (or MIL), DS1 sometimes ends up with a hypo, as he is just not careful enough about managing his blood sugar. Until DS can take full responsibility for that himself, I am his "bodyguard".

I think we are a shining example of a blended family that works for everyone - it is not at all difficult for children to manage two homes and two sets of values providing there is clarity about those discrete values and that they know what they can expect from whom, and where. The difficulty for children, whether their parents are together or not, is when their families are not clear about goals and boundaries.

Bonsoir as much as I greatly admire the sheer effort you put in to your family life you have posted on MN enough times about problems with your DSSs and their Mother for it to be clear that things are not perfect.

But you know what? That's fine.
There is no need for things to be perfect either domestically or professionally. In fact the seeking of perfection is corrosive (and feckin exhausting).

Well, I love watching my DD grow up too, but there's not much to watch while she's at school 6 hours a day

Bonsoir, you are deluded if you think such inconsistency in your DC's lives works well for them. It might work for you but I doubt very much it works for your DC's.

wordfactory - life is work-in-progress and there are always difficulties to be overcome; the fact that difficulties are addressed and resolved (and that I have no issues whatsoever about this) is the very illustration of an effective ongoing family dynamic.

jasminerice - I am not remotely deluded; my DSSs have gone from strength to strength in the past few years academically and socially.

But theya re not always in school are they gay?

Because fo the boy's various needs we have 4 schools (one each), each with their own holiday and term dates; as a result a week rarely goes by without an inset or somesuch. Local childcare does not take 12 year olds, especially aggressive ones, and as DS3's Sn taxi drops him off at exactly the same time every CM is on the school run, all CM options are withdrawn (even though his old Cm would love to have him).

However Dh will work from home in May and from then on I will be able to be more reliable in a job than someone relying on a Nanny or having to work around nursery hours, becuase he is his own boss and is happy to work odd hours around my employment when I find it.

Just be kind to yourself Bonsoir.

Life is too short to try for 100% in every task. 95 will still get you an A* .

I really enjoy very high standards of everything . Slobbing out does nothing at all for me!

Bonsoir I get that, honestly I do.
But there is a huge difference between high standards and perfectionism. The former is a pleasure the latter is simply joyless (especially for those around), because rarely can it be achieved and anyway life changes those goal posts.

Yesterday I met three girlfriends for lunch and one is a perfectionist. Her home and appearance are immaculate. Everything she touches is deliciously beautiful but her desire, nay her need for everything to be perfect make her very anxious. She has in the past suffered an eating disorder.

We talked about how she should do x, y, or z as a business but she admitted that she simply wouldn't be able to do anything that would mean her domestic life was less than perfect. She had enough self awareness to know that this was all wrong, but coouldn't move past it iyswim.

For me, it's all about things being done well enough. Home, family, career, all going swimmingly...but falling short of perfection. That way there is enough time, but more importantly mental energy to do it all.

I retrained to teach at 35, moving to that from another career. I loved teaching,m but resigned after 5 years to move abroad to join dh (having done 2 years with ds and I in UK and dh in Belgium). Giving up work was a considered and conscious decision, and I knew that it would potentially bollox my career. I was supposed to be here for 3 years, I have been here 5, with another 2 to go, and maybe more.

The compensations are that I have been around for ds's teenage years, and am on hand for the last slog before IGCSEs in May/June. We have now lived together as a family for longer than we have ever done, both pre and post ds, and it is working well. I keep my hand in professionally by examining, and once ds has gone off to board for sixth form next year, I may look at teaching at one of the international schools here, so that I have some teaching on my cv. I may also do an MA.

Teaching in itself wouldn't be hard to pick up again, but the problem if I look for jobs in UK is that I was top of the pay scale, so an NQT will always be cheaper than me, unless I agree to drop scale points; and I am unsure if the examining and the knowledge and insight gained from that, outweighs the salary difference between bottom and top of scale.

I am no perfectionist because I am a work-in-progress person. Those personalities are diametrically opposed!

'I really enjoy very high standards of everything. Slobbing out does nothing at all for me!'

There is a difference between not being perfect and a slob. Ds told me the other day that he loved me because I wasn't perfect and I didn't expect him to be.

I don't want 'perfection' carved on my tombstone; life is too short.

Please note that I have never used the word perfect or perfectionist. A perfectionist is someone who searches for the ultimate solution/goal and, when they have found it, holds onto it and keeps to the gold standard (which is highly anxiety-inducing because there is of course no such thing).

There are not two states of being - either perfect or defunct. There are vast tracts in between.

My perfectionsist freind will say she cannot abide a filthy house, where what she really means is she cannot abide anyhting out of place.

I think writing is a great levelller in all things perfection seeking. There are those that spend years and years perfecting their work, never daring to send it off for fear that just one more pass will improve it...and there are those of us who know that no project will ever be finished but at some point it has to be released.

Well no, that's my point - it's all work-in-progress. However, once you have attained a certain degree of skill or competence in one area and that level of skill has become your engrained habit (default position), it is immensely difficult to lower it.

I was once asked, by some Belgian colleagues, to lower my standards of written English (which are native speaker level), since in Belgium English is the usual language of written communication in a business context (a "compromise" between French and Flemish) but my English was of too high a standard - I needed to lower it a bit. That was very difficult to do... Imagine going through a book of slides for a presentation you had spent four months preparing and sticking in miscellaneous commas and spelling mistakes...

That is interesting Bonsoir that you feel that way.

You always give the impression that you feel there is only one way to live life ie the gold standard existence of mother devoting themselves to family and home. That anyhting less from anyone else or indeed yourself is simply inferior.