To think that many sahms don't consider the long-term implications when deciding to give up work? ***this is not a sahm vs wohm debate***

[wannaBe]

This is not a thread criticizing anyone or their decisions...

When I decided to give up work to bring up DS, I did so in the knowledge that for me, staying at home with my dc was the best thing. We were fortunate as well in that financially we could afford for me to stay at home.

Back then, I had in mind that we would have two children, so realistically would have at least eight years at home until the youngest started school, and even then, going back to work wouldn't necessarily be something I would consider as would want to be there for after school/holidays etc, and finding a job that fits in with the above is almost impossible.

So, fast forward nine years and the two children we'd planned to have turned out to only be one, and I've been a sahm for that long, although I have done volunteering in that time (reading/helping in school/chair of governors/PTA etc...) so haven't been sat on my arse as such (although the amount of time I've spent on mn does contradict that statement somewhat, )

Now I'm in a position where I want to go back to work. Actually, I've been in that position for about the past 1.5/2 years but due to circumstances such as moving areas etc have only just been able to start exploring the possibility seriously.

And I've come to a realization which, although I guess I knew deep down, I never contemplated until now. Even if you take the fact that there are very few jobs for far too many applicants in the current climate, the one thing that employers seem to want above anything else is experience, and current experience at that.

And if you haven't worked for a number of years then the reality is that they will take the person who has worked more recently, every time. And as employers currently have the pick of applicants (regardless of who you are) the chances of getting a job in the current climate if you've been bringing up your children for the past however many years is minimal.

So what I've basically realized is that being a sahm has made me unemployable.

I don't regret my decision for a second. You can't ever get that time with your children again and I'm glad that I had that opportunity and took it.

But in retrospect I do wonder whether I should have sought even a part time work opportunity sooner - even if it was something minimal.

And equally I realize that you can't tell someone who is just choosing to give up work to be with their children that they may find that they're unemployable ten years down the line when the kids are at school and they want to go back to work again without seeming like you're criticizing their decision/lifestyle.

When we make decisions we often do so in the here and now, not necessarily with the future in mind - not for ourselves anyway.

I think employmentwise anyone who is currently out of work for any reason has it extremely hard anyway.

The thought of never working again for the next 30 years is frankly rather depressing...

But what do you expect goldenbear? I don't want toi criticise the OP, who sounds very reasonable and certainly finds herself in the same position as many many other women but...she has had 9 years without working and is now half-wondering whether she should have considered her employment prospects earlier.
If other people come on and say, well, yes, if you want to be super-employable in a difficult market, don't take nine years off (paid) work. No doubt the OP had good reasons for doing so eg, moving, medical, wanting to be at home but it is possible to do these things and keep your CV active (and perhaps her voluntary work is sufficient here).

FWIW, I wouldn't be totally despondent OP - you've only jsut started lookong and I think there are still lots of opportunities and voluntary work does count. Most of the women I know who want to work have found something.

I agree star, most of the mums I know who wanted a job found something even after years of being at home. It's definately possible.

Can't see a bunch of guys having this debate...........isn't that sad, that in 2011, so many of us still view the responsibility to look after the children as an issue for women, rather than both parents?

Someone on another thread a few weeks ago commented that you hear of "working mums" far more than "working dads". I think that was a very valid comment

I don't see we'll see equality in the work place until men take lengthy paternity leave and return part time

Redwine, I think we won't see equality until men grow wombs and have babies.

and produce breastmilk for months after.

It was interesting to read views about self worth and identity being tied into your job/job title.

I stated way up thread that I went back to work when the boys were 18 weeks old. Apart from the odd tear the week before I was due to go back I have never regretted it.
In the 15 years since DS1 was born I have had a few very different jobs with the same employer (local authority). This year I was made redundant from my post. I was devastated. and couldn't quite believe it. I couldn't imagine not working but couldn't imagine getting another job either. I felt sick at the thought of being unemployed. At the 11th hour I got a job on the same pay
( very good money for what I do and I wouldn't even get half that rate in private sector) It took a while for me to realise how much my identity is wrapped up in work.

To me working is vital but it is important to be happy in your job. I hated this one at first and considered getting a teaching assistant job even though it would mean at least a £15,000+ pay cut but I soon found that I couldn't even get an interview for those jobs. After that realisation I decided to stay where I am and now love it.

I can carry on earning my own money, treat the family, pay into my pension and savings and if anything bad happens to DH I can take over and support the family like I have done before in the mid 90's.

'Redwine, I think we won't see equality until men grow wombs and have babies.'

'and produce breastmilk for months after'

Exactly!

Upahill- interesting post; sometimes a job can take a while to 'grow' on you, and its worth hanging in for the longer term. I agree that ideally its good to do a job you love; although resilience is a good quality to have too. Very few people fall into their perfect job at a young age, so being able to cope with work' which is less than ideal is important

Like upahill, I am very interested in the views about self worth and identity being tied into your job. Of course some SAHMs wish to return to work for financial reasons, but if your DH is easily able to support you, it is interesting to read how women feel about continuing to stay at home. I think most of us would agree that it's not really about filling the hours - that can easily be done by a combination of cooking / cleaning / parenting outside school hours / exercise / hobbies / voluntary or very pt work (eg dinner lady). The question is whether you would feel fulfilled by this - clearly a very personal decision.

I also think Hardgoing made an interesting point that 'if all you do is hand on the baton of maternal sacrifice to the next generation, it may well end up that your daughters become very well-educated themselves, but then also step back from fulfilling their educational and intellectual potential'.

I genuinely love being a SAHM. But I do have a feeling that, when they are all at school for 7 hours a day, I will need 'something more'....

I wasn't implying being a dinner lady is 'lowly', so much as pointing out you don't need to be highly educated to do it. Investing in the next generation and 'sacrificing' your own career only works if the next generation get educated and use that education. And, there are plenty of women doing jobs for which they are massively overqualified, the same isn't true for men (or the men I see).

There are so many of us in the same boat . When I gave up work, I thought it would be possible to get back in to work. Someone I worked with had done so after 10 years out and was at a reasonable level. However, I guess as a working person, I didn't get to meet the people who hadn't managed to.

That said, I don't regret a single second I have spent as a SAHM. Children grow up so fast. It seems minutes since we had DC1 and in less than that time again he will probably be off to college/uni/work .

Betty, the thing is that getting jobs is hard for everyone right now, it's not just SAHP's. I have two male friends who looked for between a year and two year, and they had the up-to-date CV's and so on. I applied for a job that I thought had my name written on it and didn't even get an interview. It will change though, but perhaps not for a few years :(

Having said that, I massively encouraged a friend of mine to seek work recently as she had been caught in the benefit trap for a good while, and she interviewed for about three jobs, and got the third. It's not a massively interesting job, mainly data input and management, but it is around school hours and I'm pretty impressed she got it. And she didn't have higher education qualifications (which may actually have been a bonus as she wasn't therefore 'overqualified').

"The question is whether you would feel fulfilled by this - clearly a very personal decision."

What stops me from feeling fulfilled by being at home is the drudgery of housework. I'm a creative person and could easily fill my hours with interesting 'work' that was not housework, including writing, creating recipes, gardening and educational activities with my children.

Most women I know who work full-time (I only work part-time) still have all the drudgery of housework, they just do it in the evenings and at weekends. At top speed.

"but then also step back from fulfilling their educational and intellectual potential'."

I find it interesting that educating and shaping the life of another human being is seen as being less intellectually, creatively and educationally challenging that say, working as a marketing manager or an accountant.

I don't think genuine self worth can come from something external like a job for eg, only from within. Corny but true in my case.

In some ways being a SAHM gave me much better financial independence despite exH leaving for another woman. Like anothermum I got a very good divorce settlement which recognised my input as a SAHM. That has meant that I've been able to fulfill my own intellectual and creative potential because I can spend my free time doing interesting and creative things (currently doing an arts MA) without worrying about the burden of working.

I hate housework too, I don't do much due to having a cleaner, perhaps I would not be so content if I had to do it myself.

Shagmund- I don't think anyone is suggesting shaping the life of another human being is not creative and fulfilling. Of course it is! I'd also add that all parents do that, whether they work or not.

I think the point made earlier by Hardgoing (in an excellent post) is that there is actually a kind of tension between encouraging our daughters to get qualified and aim for interesting careers, if we are simultaneously giving them the message that their work life will be less important than their future partner. Its interesting because I have never met a mother who doesn't want her daughter to aspire to good qualifications and a successful work life. If we are raising our daughters to aspire to that, then its important to not blur that message with the suggestion that they motherhood is all about guilt and compromise and having to give things up

YANBU - However, I knew exactly what sacrifice I was making, it didnt make it easier though.

Just to add to the debate...

I stayed working as I know that, statistically, one in two marriages break up.

So, after paying for childcare am effectively working for v little but that's the chance i took incase DH leaves me/joins a cult/cops it.

So far, he hasn't but staying in work is my security blanket.

Not very romantic, but there you go.

I find it interesting that educating and shaping the life of another human being is seen as being less intellectually, creatively and educationally challenging that say, working as a marketing manager or an accountant.

I have been both a SAHM and an accountant, and I can honestly say that whilst I personally find being an accountant easier, being a SAHM does not really have any conceptual difficulty, so I would say that I don't think being a SAHM is intellectually or educationally stretching. Being a SAHM is emotionally harder though.

Yes Hardgoing and Callmemrs my thoughts too.

I wonder what mothers who have given up on their careers so that their husbands can carry on theirs unimpeded tell their daughters about why it is worthwhile studying and getting qualifications?

Redwine and Jellybeans - surely it can't be beyond the wit of humanity to figure out a way to prevent tge couple of years spent in pregnancy and breastfeeding still defining male and female roles so strongly. I wonder if adoptive parents take a more equal approach in taking the career hits that parenthood entails?

I love seeing my son grow up and am prepared to pay whatever the price will be for this because once this time is gone it is gone.I have friends who regret missing out because they returned to work. I guess it depends what you want more.

Are we all so full of sour grapes only because jobs are so hard to get right now? I was fairly confident 4-5 years ago that I could easily enough get something (when I was ready), because the economy was booming then.

Cherrysodalover- your post simply confirms what all parents feel- that we love watching our children grow up. We do that whether we work' or not. The parents are the primary carers and the most influential people in shaping their childrens lives. If part of your pleasure at staying at home depends on convincing yourself that other people must be missing out somehow- then that says more about you than about them