To think that many sahms don't consider the long-term implications when deciding to give up work? ***this is not a sahm vs wohm debate***

[wannaBe]

This is not a thread criticizing anyone or their decisions...

When I decided to give up work to bring up DS, I did so in the knowledge that for me, staying at home with my dc was the best thing. We were fortunate as well in that financially we could afford for me to stay at home.

Back then, I had in mind that we would have two children, so realistically would have at least eight years at home until the youngest started school, and even then, going back to work wouldn't necessarily be something I would consider as would want to be there for after school/holidays etc, and finding a job that fits in with the above is almost impossible.

So, fast forward nine years and the two children we'd planned to have turned out to only be one, and I've been a sahm for that long, although I have done volunteering in that time (reading/helping in school/chair of governors/PTA etc...) so haven't been sat on my arse as such (although the amount of time I've spent on mn does contradict that statement somewhat, )

Now I'm in a position where I want to go back to work. Actually, I've been in that position for about the past 1.5/2 years but due to circumstances such as moving areas etc have only just been able to start exploring the possibility seriously.

And I've come to a realization which, although I guess I knew deep down, I never contemplated until now. Even if you take the fact that there are very few jobs for far too many applicants in the current climate, the one thing that employers seem to want above anything else is experience, and current experience at that.

And if you haven't worked for a number of years then the reality is that they will take the person who has worked more recently, every time. And as employers currently have the pick of applicants (regardless of who you are) the chances of getting a job in the current climate if you've been bringing up your children for the past however many years is minimal.

So what I've basically realized is that being a sahm has made me unemployable.

I don't regret my decision for a second. You can't ever get that time with your children again and I'm glad that I had that opportunity and took it.

But in retrospect I do wonder whether I should have sought even a part time work opportunity sooner - even if it was something minimal.

And equally I realize that you can't tell someone who is just choosing to give up work to be with their children that they may find that they're unemployable ten years down the line when the kids are at school and they want to go back to work again without seeming like you're criticizing their decision/lifestyle.

When we make decisions we often do so in the here and now, not necessarily with the future in mind - not for ourselves anyway.

I think employmentwise anyone who is currently out of work for any reason has it extremely hard anyway.

The thought of never working again for the next 30 years is frankly rather depressing...

boglach if you intend to make a career of ebing a writer then you need to get it right out of your head that you are a SAHM.

In order to make a success of it you will need to set aside many working hours both for the actual writing and promoting etc. Assuming you can do all that and be a full time SAHM is delusional.

Surely the pure financial benefit for the family depends on how much one earns and you cannot just claim that returning to work will destroy value for family. I and DH each earn significantly more than housekeeping, childcare, work clothes etc costs (and domestic help is tax deductible in France) so sacrificing one career would not be financially beneficial.

I worked my backside off to maintain my career while staying at home with three children. I was lucky to be in an industry where freelance work and working from home are feasible (though not ideal). It was really hard work - I often worked all nap times, evenings & weekends and what little I earned went straight onto childcare.

I'm so glad I did it now as youngest DC has started nursery and I have got a good PT job - I'm still earning less and in a lower position than I was ten years' ago but I have a professional job with not unreasonable prospects of advancement in a great family-friendly firm and at last we are also seeing the financial benefits of two incomes.

If you think you might want to work again, I would be wary of taking more than 2+ years off as it is a very difficult market out there. ALso, when the DCs were very little, I used to think working was impossible but DH always said, that if I wanted to work, there is always a way and I think - extreme circumstances excepting - there is always something you can do. I got my first big work project post-maternity as a direct result of some voluntary work I did while at home after having DC2.

By default some are being patronising as they're suggesting the decision to return to work after maternity leave was an insightful one that has afforded them huge advantage over the poor SAHM pals that like the OP are screwed (OP, not saying you are) - 'if only they'd had the gumption to make the dual parenting work' - this appears the general gist.

Yes and I am saying that economic circumstances has a lot to do with the OP's predicament as does work culture in the UK. It is more progessive to want to change that than scare women into returning to work when they're not ready to leave their baby!

I am not delusional word factory. i am a 32 year old strong and intelligent woman so i don't wish to be patronised. i started writing my book 15 months ago and have managed to write whilst my youngest naps, in the evenings and at weekends etc. i also attended a couple of night classes. i am fully aware that once my novel is finished if it is good enough to be published then i will have to step up my hours and may need childcare.

my point was that i don't consider myself only as a mother. i am widely read and i believe i can write too. i have ideas. i may not have the same skills i had previously but i have gainef others.

The other thing I would add is that voluntary work is worth much more if it's doing the job you eventually want to be paid to do. EG, I see lots of CVs where women cite eg, voluntary work in a school but want to work in payroll in which case the school role is almost irrelevant.

Most charities, big and small, have boards that need treasurers, events organisers, editors, fundraisers etc - roles with specific skills that are very transferable. If you want to be a writer, write for your local NCT newsletter or school website. If you want to be a TA or teacher, work in a school. Sorry to state the obvious but I look at a lot of CVs and lots of applicants seem to think that all volunteer work is good - it's better than nothing I guess but it is so much better the more relevant it is to the role you're applying for.

Goldenbear makes a very good point that dual parenting is only an option if both parents have some flexibility in their work. My other half does the same job as yours and has very little has flexibility. Luckily my job is largely shift based so we can just about balance me working part time (although often comes crashing down when the little man is sick and I'm on nights)
Although that does mean I work a lot of weekends and family time becomes quite limited. In reality no option is idea excluding winning euro millions and swanning around the world

But part of changing work culture means not assuming you are screwed because you've got young DCs - there are ways of working if you want to - nothing to do with scaring women who really want to be at home into work. Though I think that working with young DCs and actually making a profit is a much harder thing to achieve.

wordfactory, you have proven my point about the tone of this thread.

You can write and be a SAHM, to all intents and purposes - I would just dispute whether you can make money out of writing, fiction at least.

There is no tone. You are projecting.

Yes you can make a living out of writing fiction. I do. But you can't assume you will be able to do so and SAH full time. You will have commitments. You will have deadlines. You will have meetings.

Yes there are ways of working but not necessarily of working in similar positions that you held prior to having children - there has to be fundamental changes made in working cultures/practices for that to always be an option.

I suppose what I'm saying is that you have to see yourself as working FT albeit within the home for a lot of the time (although not all).

hackmum: "after years as an SAHM, which she was happy with, she applied for a job she thought she was perfect for and didn't even get an interview"

Just wanted to add that it's not necessarily down to her being a SAHM - I've always worked, apart from 6 months maternity leave with each of my 2 DC, and a couple of shortish periods out of a job. But, I have also applied for jobs I thought I was perfect for (and I work in a pretty narrow field, so there wouldn't have been many people more suitable than me), but did not get interviews.

My query, reading Bonsoir's posts in particular, but relating to the concept of maternal sacrifice and putting the family first, is what's it all for? If you are a highly educated woman and you then sacrifice that, by taking long periods out of the workplace and then taking a job such as a dinner lady which needed no such education, the supposed benefit is that you have made the sacrifice so your children can achieve intellectually and emotionally. But if all you do is hand on the baton of maternal sacrifice to the next generation, it may well end up that your daughters become very well-educated themselves, but then also step back from fulfilling their educational and intellectual potential, become a dinner lady and try to better their children and so on.

At what point do you say: it's important that women fulfil their OWN potential instead of trying to do so through the next generation? And, why do most men happily go out and try to fulfil theirs without worrying about the impact this has on the next generation? And, more importantly, how does this generational 'sacrifice' play out in continuing inequalities towards women, in terms of always defining parenting as a woman's issue, and continuing the cycle of underachievement (in comparison to educational level) for women?

If lots of women were happy doing part-time, small side-line business, from home, menial jobs, great. But I see a heck of a lot of frustrated highly educated friends wondering what it was all for? And, having sacrificed a relatively small amount time-wise (two/three/four/five years out of the workplace), they appear to have sacrificed an enormous amount in terms of their power in relationships and in the wider world.

On the plus side, there are careers that allow for periods of time-out to be a primary child-carer, such as being an academic (not child-friendly hours, but having children is not a taboo topic and grants/funding specifically allows for years taken for child-rearing for both men and women).

boglach you may not be remotely delusional but many mnay are.

If I had a quid for every SAHP who thinks they can write a book 'now they're at home'. Well...I'd be in Brazil .

Most people a. write drivel and b. think they can do it as and when the fancy takes them.
Making a sustainable career of it is very hard graft.

Yes, I agree wordfactory - a lot of my work can be done from home and I did all of it from home when the DCs were little, which meant I could be flexible. But my work involves no phone calls, long deadlines and meetings were minimal (but involved very expensive childcare when they did occur). I still needed childcare which wiped out most of my earnings and I am definitely not at a level I was pre-children but, TBH, I do't know whether to be annoyed by this or over-the-moon that I have work I enjoy, is flexible but reasonably challenging and is in the area I like with reasonable prospects.

By the way, I second what Wordfactory has said- it is not impossible but it is difficult to write either the quantity or quality to make money with small children at home (one very quiet child is ok perhaps, I lost the plot in every sense with two).

I have also worked naps, evenings and weekends writing, but it is not sustainable over the long-term. You have to block out working time to write in which you get childcare and which your partner understands you are working, otherwise you can't get the work done quick enough and get the money flowing in.

All my friends who work freelance writing, translating etc say the same.

Agree again wordfactory - one of my jobs is reading the slush pile...

Sorry wordfactory can you explain how I am 'projecting'. You are the one advising someone how to make a living from writing which they appear to have not even asked for.

But in the long term hardgoing, your children will be at school, which gives you a fair amount of free time. If you can jsut keep something going so that you still have the contacts etc for when childcare becomes cheaper/easier, there are benefits if youdo want to return to work.

Staranise- you are right. I actually write as part of/on top of my full-time job as well, so in my case, I have rather over-exerted myself this year. But I have a massively supportive partner who understands I have to have time for writing, otherwise the book won't happen. And, which is critical to me, I already have a book contract so am not writing something which won't get published. I may not make much money though!

Nobody works in publishing for the money (except perhaps Stephanie Meyer ;o) )

Most charities, big and small, have boards that need treasurers, events organisers, editors, fundraisers etc - roles with specific skills that are very transferable.

Agree with this. Charities, especially smallish local ones, often struggle to attract appropriately qualified trustees, and especially love to hear from people with skills in HR, law, finance (there are NEVER enough treasurers), social services etc. Being a trustee is roughly equivalent to being a company director, so has real weight.