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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that this was ridiculous...

571 replies

MeltedAdventCalendarChocolates · 11/12/2011 23:17

Sure he probably was lying. Maybe he wasn't and should have had the maturity to handle it differently, who knows, but for a random stranger to handle this KID in this way is horrific!

AIBU?

OP posts:
demetersdaughter · 12/12/2011 09:24

Maybe we could have a mumsnet campaign to all chip in and buy him a season ticket so he doesn't have to suffer the misfortune of standing alone on a train platform again?

blueballoon79 · 12/12/2011 09:24

I saw no violence. I saw a young man acting in an aggressive manner towards an elderly conductor who was merely trying to do his job.
I then saw another man offer to help the conductor and the young man resisting leaving the train, so being dragged off.

FanjoForTheReindeerJumper · 12/12/2011 09:24

We used to be harassed by a gang of kids aged about 12. They would throw stones and try to break our windows. I once knocked on window at them and they actually came into stair and threw stones at ME, absolutely outraged that I had dared to tell them off. Their parents were prob like that neds dad who is threatening the guy who stood up to this kid rather than telling his son off for his behaviour. These same kids who threatened me also told our.neighbours son they would set him on fire (he was 11) because she complained about them throwing eggs at her windows

crazycrackernanna · 12/12/2011 09:25

Or lying face down alone on a platform.....

I agree he should have had a ticket,and should have had recourse for that..of course.

But what happened was unlawful and way out of line.

NoOnesGoingToEatYourMincePies · 12/12/2011 09:26

If someone grabbed you, wouldn't you resist? Would you just be meekly dragged or pushed or walked along, leaving your belongings behind you? I think I would probably push back like that through total panic if nothing else. I'd want that person to let go of me no matter how mouthy I had been beforehand.

When the man grabbed him he left the boys belongings behind too. I think that was one reason the boy tried to get back on the train, he hadn't realised that someone else had already thrown his bag off the train too.

What the boy did was wrong, no doubt about it. But the physical reaction was out of proportion to what he 'deserved' and the better response would have been to call the transport police to deal with it professionally as they see fit.

Again, it's this issue of what he "deserved" that I have the most issue with, people are taking pleasure in watching someone twice his size manhandle him in such a way and even almost gloating about it.

crazycrackernanna · 12/12/2011 09:27

I agree mouthy teens are a problem,and the ones you describe Fanjo are totally and utterly unacceptable and should be dealt with. Nobody should put up with AS behaviour.

My point is let the right people deal with it...the law.

DoesNotGiveAFig · 12/12/2011 09:32

The point others are trying to make is the law is quite ineffective in dealing with AS teens, so it leads to situations like this.

As someone said, all he'd have got would be a small fine, which, given his attitude in this incident, he wouldn't have paid. And he'd have carried on being a shit. Maybe being all alone in the dark and cold might teach him a lesson.

noone the kid knew that the man was approaching him to take him off the train. He chose to react that way to something he understood. It's not a random grab attack.

FanjoForTheReindeerJumper · 12/12/2011 09:33

The law didn't deal with them, incidentally. One of them went to prison as soon as he turned 18, he stabbed someone, but nothing was done at the time.

bananamam · 12/12/2011 09:39

I think he was handled roughly but he should have had the decency to get off when asked. The man handled him more when the "kid" tried to get back on the train, knowing he would be forced off again.

Scotland certainly has a lower tolerance I think, when it comes to teenagers chatting back.....and being really stupid like this teen was!!

This doesn't make it right, but having been in similar situations on trains, I kinda wish more people would stand up. Although when the man got on the train with a gun that day, I was glad we all stayed still!!!!

NoWayNoHow · 12/12/2011 09:39

TBH, I think we're getting caught up with the reaction of the "Big Man" when actually we should be looking at the situation before.

We all take risks in life - I personally don't retaliate when my pregnant ass gets pinched by a 14 year old in his school uniform, because he's surrounded by loads of other (taller and bigger than me) mates, and I'm not going to encourage a situation I can't control.

In the same way, I no longer make wild hand gestures at dangerous and aggressive drivers, as the last time I did that, one of them got out the car and started screaming at me and banging on my window.

We all make decisions in life to behave in ways that fit in with the level of risk we're prepared to take.

This "kid" (seriously, when I read the OP I thought we were talking about a 6 year old) has looked at a situation, made the decision to behave in a certain way either without considering what risks that might entail, or weighing up the risks and deciding to go ahead anyway.

He is not responsible for the behaviour of the man who ejected him from the train, but by being a goody shit and an entitled, free-loading twat, he took the risk that someone might not like that behaviour.

Therefore, he has no-one but himself to blame for what happened next.

amatuermummy · 12/12/2011 09:42

He wasn't cold and all alone on the platform, there were people there with him. If the police had come he would have been given a fine, better to be chucked off in my opinion.
The young man (he was not a child) was being rude and aggressive to the ticket collector. He had dodged the fare and got caught. He deserved to be chucked off the train. There was no 'body slam', the fare dodger resisted being pushed out of the train and either fell to the floor or threw himself to the floor.
He deserved everything he got, if that had been my son I would be happy that someone chucked him off and taught him a lesson. If he'd called me from the platform I'd tell him to walk home.
I can't understand this 'softly, softly' attitude, it's obviously not working. Look at the teens of today!

RalphTheRedNosedGnu · 12/12/2011 09:43

There's no hero or villain here. The teen was obnoxious, rude and broke the law. The conductor lost his temper and behaved inappropriately.

Neither of them deserved to be treated the way they were.

NoOnesGoingToEatYourMincePies · 12/12/2011 09:48

I don't think he did though Fig, he had his back to the man, who was also behind a partition, and his attention was on the conductor.

It was all very quick, BigMan said "Is there a problem?" and the conductor, who had seen BigMan coming says to get him off the train and the boy hasn't even looked around before BigMan grabs him.

I don't think this incident will stop him from being a shit. He's learned a lesson that there is always someone bigger than you are, but I don't think that lesson ever really stopped anyone from being a shit.

I don't know. I was attacked once by a girl who wanted my seat. She threatened me and told me to move, then when I tried she punched me in the face and three or four of her friends set on me too. I was warned, because she made the threat, but it still came as a shock. Seeing other people being grabbed always reminds me of the violence in being grabbed myself. But I don't think that boy saw the man coming and once he had been grabbed I think his ability to rationalise it went out of the window.

I still don't have any sympathy for him as such, but I don't think having a random member of the public eject him from the train in this way was the right way to go.

redlac · 12/12/2011 09:54

watch it again MincePie the 'big man' is standing right next to the wee ned and says "do you want a hand to get him off the train?" The wee selfish scrote would have heard him.

I have no sympathy for neds like this - I'm local to the area it happened in and live next to neds who don't give a fuck about those around them.

JeremyVile · 12/12/2011 09:56

Totally split by this. I dont feel sad fo or angry at, anyone involved.

The young lad - I did feel a twang of compassion for him watching the clip. I really dont see him being especially mouthy or aggressive. Aggressive where I'm from would involve the lad getting up and screaming into the ticket inspectors face - so not excusing his swearing but im inclined to think he's not that bad a person.

But thats not to say I feel especially sorry for him or that the big man (did he really call himself that? I didnt hear that) did anything out of order.

The actions of both of them were not ideal but both are probably decent people otherwise.

Crap happens, and we are not robots.

redlac · 12/12/2011 09:57

the guy filming him calls him 'big man' at the end. its a well known turn of phrase in Scotland.

JeremyVile · 12/12/2011 09:59

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

BendyBob · 12/12/2011 10:00

He got chucked off. Good.

Agree with earlier comments about some youths thinking they can do as they please and are untouchable.

One such entitled yoof rode his motorbike at my daughter last friday as she waited on the pavement for me to collect her after schoolAngry. It was all done for a laugh apparantly. I reported it to the police who couldn't do much and didn't sound very interested.

Perhaps people are fed up with the law doing so little that they are tempted to act themselves.

JeremyVile · 12/12/2011 10:00

Yes, I heard that. But he was getting a slating for referring to himself as 'big man' and I didnt think he had.

demetersdaughter · 12/12/2011 10:00

Can someone show Jeremyvile off the mumsnet express for using vile language please?

perfumedlife · 12/12/2011 10:01

There seem to be several comments asking what this episode will teach the young man. Why on earth should we be still be worrying about teaching him anything? His parents should already, from birth, have given him a good grounding on how to behave and be a fully functioning member of society. It's not a load of people on a train's job.

The inspector was an elderly man, he didn't deserve this. What about his rights to go about his work safely? He was offered help and accepted it. For all we know, if he authorised this man to step in then this was allowed by the train company.

If this young man was my son, I'd consider my parenting a failure. I would not be considering bleating on about unjustified force.

redlac · 12/12/2011 10:01

to me its not that he's mouthy or aggressive its the fact that he's all "well I'm no moving", like I said previously, no sense of common decency for those around him - he was caught out and didn't put his hands up. Some of us have to deal with this 'sense of entitlement' from wee neds like this day in day out - THATS why I don't have any sympathy for him.

Haziedoll · 12/12/2011 10:02

I agree with melted advent. Very surprised that the man was applauded.

Arion · 12/12/2011 10:03

Chipping and Hec put it very eloquently.

The young man (not child) was a thug who was quite happy to delay all the other people on the train. He deserved what he got, he wasn't beaten, he was ejected for being an obnoxious little shite.

I would think that if the conductor asked "big man" to help eject the young man, that would mean he was "authorised".

If either of my children behave like this when older I would be mortified, and "big man" would be the start, not end of the situation.

The young man showed a complete lack of respect for authority and the other people on the train and hopefully will re-asses his attitude. (Or maybe we'll see him on World's Strictest Parents")

redlac · 12/12/2011 10:03

but perfumedlife, his parents probably don't give a flying fuck where he is, what he is doing! They don't see it as a parenting failure, they'll just be glad that hes out the house and not bothering them.