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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

to despise lying to children?

237 replies

TimeWasting · 11/12/2011 00:19

I hate that it's the main wondrous magical part of Christmas for them, about receiving stuff rather than giving and that it's a basic lie.

I think it makes Christmas shit.

OP posts:
JugglingWithGoldandMyrhh · 13/12/2011 09:51

We always have half eaten mince pies and half eaten carrots for the reindeer in this house for DCs to discover and make of what they will !
I love it !

ScarlettCrossbones · 13/12/2011 09:54

Yep, so do we Juggling! Xmas Grin I did all that when I was a kid too, despite not believing in Santa. It's just all a good fun story to play, is the way I look at it.

What I DON'T like is people telling me I am a miserable Scrooge who is depriving my child of a magical Christmas.

Christmas is a fun, exciting, glittery and magical time of year in our house!

Sirzy · 13/12/2011 09:58

But what harm would playing along with her have done? If she thought that I personally think to just Mmm is quite sad!! Playing along with her imagination does no harm!

Sirzy · 13/12/2011 09:59

Juggling that's how I tend to do it! Each to their own but to me I love playing along with their imagination in all ways not just Christmas!

valiumredhead · 13/12/2011 10:04

The difference between playing along with THEIR imagination is that it comes from THEM, not us inflicting and insisting they believe in FC on them - hope that makes sense, it does in my head Grin

tulipgrower · 13/12/2011 10:06

Interesting views. So, we 'on the continent' are obviously completely miserable gits, as many countries here simply don't 'do' Santa, like they do in the UK. The dutch have St. Nik on the 6th, my PILs do the "Christkind" (Christ child brings presents on the 24th), some just get presents, ... Oddly enough all the kids here still get really excited, they adore baking Christmas biscuits, decorating the tree, opening the Advents calendar, singing carols, visiting the Christmas markets, ... and their eyes light up when they finally see the presents under the tree. For me the build up to Christmas makes the magic.

DS1 is now 3.5y and he's sussed that it's all something to do with presents, and I don't think he currently cares where they come from. I'll stick with the line that we're celebrating Jesus' birthday, as that's true and he understands the concept of birthdays and presents. My DH ensured that St. Nik. put something in his shoes on the 6th of Dec. (we live on the border to the Netherlands). The PILs will tell him something about the "Christkind", he's also going to get a few presents on the 25th ... it's all good.

I find it a little sad, that on MN if you don't stick to the Santa dogma, then you are often considered a miserable, or mean parent, sucking the magic out of your kids lives.

And if a slightly chubby, pasty, underdressed kid with a blinking Santa hat (that's how we pick the UK visitors Wink) comes up to me at the local Christmas market and asks me if Santa is real, then I'll ask him/her what he/she thinks, and then say, well I think then that's ok. No lying required.

Sirzy · 13/12/2011 10:06

Makes perfect sense and I agree. I can fully understand why some people don't want to push the whole father Christmas thing but I still don't see why that means you can't play along with them.

If you don't want father Christmas at all you tell them from a young age he doesn't exist.

ScarlettCrossbones · 13/12/2011 10:14

Yes, I do accept what you're saying about playing along, Sirzy. I don't always just go "Mmmm"!

But unfortunately telling them from a young age that he doesn't exist isn't really an option unless you want your child to be a social pariah and whip up other parents' anger! It would be a bit like going to a church in the Deep South and saying that God doesn't exist!

Gotta strike a fine balance at this age as I don't want my kids to feel "different" or "left out" in any way - that's the most important part of it to me.

tulipgrower · 13/12/2011 10:15

valium - I agree with you. I don't really want Father Christmas, but I don't feel any urge to tell my kids from a young age that he doesn't exist. I'll let my kids lead and we'll see where their imagination takes them.

JugglingWithGoldandMyrhh · 13/12/2011 10:43

I get annoyed anyway with all this "there's only one way to do Christmas - just like I do it" thing. A lot of pressure to buy lots of pressies, write Christmas cards to everyone, join in with Secret Santa at work, and then the Santa thing with your kids as well ... You know the sort of thing, everyone asking you all the time if you're "ready for Christmas ?"

I wish everyone would live and let live a little more and not expect everyone to do stuff just because they do. Arghhh !

valiumredhead · 13/12/2011 10:46

Good post juggling?

I always chuckle when people say are you ready for Xmas? In reality, Xmas is ONE day where you do a roast dinner so unless you find cooking difficult it shouldn't be that hard. You buy and wrap presents and bung up a tree. All easy enough things to manage. Everything else is just self inflicted pressure.

valiumredhead · 13/12/2011 10:47

Didn't mean to use a question mark there!

LizzieBusy · 13/12/2011 10:50

YABU and why the hatred of toys.
Yes its commercial but it was when I was little too. Kids also love the magic of it all and getting together with family. Why deny them that ?

Sirzy · 13/12/2011 10:51

I doubt any 2 families do father christmas the same way, let alone the rest of christmas!!

Personally I love Christmas but never send cards to anyone as to me its a waste of time - people send them to me but know not to expect one back!!

TimeWasting · 13/12/2011 11:16

'hatred of toys?' Xmas Confused

OP posts:
tulipgrower · 13/12/2011 11:28

"Hatred of toys"?! We're drowning in toys and books. I seriously doubt we really NEED any more. But I'll 2nd the magic of family time. Reading stories, playing games, dancing around the lounge room, going sledding, ...

lurkinginthebackground · 13/12/2011 11:56

I am still quite bemused by all the outrage at the "lying parents." Ie parents who allow (or whatever) their children to believe in Santa or even God are downright liars, yet parents who choose to lie about other aspects are not liers merely some sort of do-gooders who only have their child's best interests at heart.
I will repeat what I said earlier: Anyone who never, ever tells a lie probably has no friends!!!!
My children do not believe in santa. My eldest dd is unsure about God (entirely her choice) yet she has asked that we go to midnight mass this Christmas which we will. As young children I took my dcs to church on Christmas morning and told them that I wanted them to experience a different type of Christmas from the commercialised one which a lot of people experience.
Christmas is what you make it. Do not buy into the commercialism if you don't want to.
When my dd asked for expensive trainers I told her that they were no better than unbranded ones and that in reality they are made by children in sweat shops. She was horrified to learn this. If you want to make a difference then start with yourself. Explain to your children about real values. Tell them not to expect everything in life and to always know that there is someone less fortunate than themselves.

As for Santa I always thought that he had some grounding in reality as he was modelled on Saint Nikolaus (sp?) who when passing the home of a poor family threw either money or oranges into their stockings which were hung over the mantlepiece drying.

valiumredhead · 13/12/2011 11:58

Outrage is an over reaction Grin Difference of opinion, more like.

JugglingWithGoldandMyrhh · 13/12/2011 12:18

That's a nice story about St. Nikolaus lurking

  • I'll add that to our Christmas story collection ! Xmas Smile

dd(12) will like to hear that I think as she hangs up her stocking or some other time over Christmas Smile

SirCliffRichardSucksEggsInHell · 13/12/2011 12:31

I have never told my children about Father Christmas. They have always known he does not exist.

I am one of those who were traumatised in early childhood by it being revealed to me that years of believing in FC and fairies were all a lie. My sister used to send me letters from the fairies and I had such a strong belief in FC. In many ways my magical world was a blessed relief from my childhood. When it was all taken away I was devastated. I hated my family for their deceit and I just felt that they had been laughing behind my back all those years. The crushing disappointment I felt has never really left me.

So I determined that I would not lie to my children. Christmas has not lost any of its magic or sparkle for them. They understand about Christmas spirit, about goodwill and the magic of giving. We always try to participate in charity events and make a special effort to do good deeds.

Yes they are excited at the thought of presents, but my 11yo dd is now more aware of the bigger picture. Of the preparations and cheery atmosphere and the joy of choosing a gift for someone. She appreciates Christmas a lot more now and even my 8yo ds gets excited when he's spending his pocket money on choosing gifts for others.

We also go to church and they make lovely birthday cards for Jesus. Then on Christmas Eve we all try and spot the shiniest star in the sky. For them, magic happens on Christmas Eve anyway, but it's a more spiritual magic.

Now I may be accused by non-believers of lying to them about Jesus. However lying means telling them something you know to be untrue. Jesus did exist, that much is proven. Whether or not you believe him to be the Son of God is up to you, but if you don't then we are celebrating the birth of a very special and wise man. There is nothing deceitful about that. And yes, my children know that some people don't believe he was the Son of God, just as they know that some people believe in Father Christmas. They've never contradicted anyone and have shown more tolerance towards others than many people on this thread.

valiumredhead · 13/12/2011 12:33

Good post sircliff

SummerRain · 13/12/2011 13:21

dp and I are always honest with the our children, we have a real issue with lying to them and any question they ask they get an honest answer. We don't lie to them at all, to the point where other parents get a bit freaked out.

However They believe in Santa and the tooth fairy and I encourage that. I think the magic and joy of believing in these things is in no way damaging to them, and they are certainly not lies that they'll look back on as adults and hate me for!

There's a difference between the casual lying that so many parents engage in (there's no veg in that, no of course the chicken you eat isn't the same as the ones on the farm, mommy will ring the police if you do that again, i'll be right back, rex has gone to the farm, etc, etc) and play acting the Santa story for them.

And seeing as I have on other occasions told them that fairies are just make believe, if they wanted to they could figure the whole tooth fairy thing out fairly easily Wink

valiumredhead · 13/12/2011 13:23

I can't imagine saying anything from the casual lies you have used as examples there summer!

SummerRain · 13/12/2011 13:32

All ones I've heard parents use, some of them my parents used.

Someone dropped her 22 month old round at my house to babysit last week and said to the child 'I'm just going out to the car to get something, i'll be right back' before leaving for 2 hours Shock

Despite living in a rural community most kids round here don't relate beef, pork, chicken and lamb to the animals in the fields Confused

My own parents decided that as a picky eater it was better to just lie to me about what I was eating.... everything was 'chicken' or 'steak' even when it clearly wasn't... I still don't believe them when they tell me what's for dinner!

They also told me there were crocodiles in any deep pools or lakes they didn't want me to swim in, that my cat went to live with a nice family when we moved country, that Mommies and daddies made babies with a hug and millions of other lies I can't be arsed remembering right now.

JugglingWithGoldandMyrhh · 13/12/2011 13:33

Satsumas and chocolate money in the stockings this year then lurking - along with a few other bits and pieces Xmas Smile

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