to despise lying to children?

[TimeWasting]

I hate that it's the main wondrous magical part of Christmas for them, about receiving stuff rather than giving and that it's a basic lie.

I think it makes Christmas shit.

What does 'magic of Christmas' mean though? Santa is real? Again it's about who brings the presents which is not what our Christmases our about.

Again, I still think the parents on here lack a serious amount of imagination, with their whole denial of a Santa/Father Christmas.
And the magic with small children is the best feeling ever.
Reality is shit, when they're little let them enjoy the fantasy until they are old enough to realise life is not like that.

"Do people honestly think it's either one thing or another? Do they really think that once kids stop believing them Christmas is no longer 'magical?'"

And do people honestly think that is is either the whole Elf on the Shelf full blown fantasy or nothing?

YABU. And a joysucker.

And the people doing pursed lips and huffy arm-folding and saying Well, presents aren't what christmas is about" are missing the point. The presents are a small part of it. When I was a little girl it was about church, the nativity, family, presents, parties, sharing. Just because some of us choose to keep up the FC myth, doesn't necessarily mean that we are creating materialistic little emperors. It is just a magical part of the whole thing.

I'm shocked that so many people want to de-magic christmas..I thought it was just my parents that were miserable old gits

YABU. You can have the magic of Father Christmas and giving gifts to others. In our family Father Christmas brings stocking stuff. All other presents come from parents and relatives.

It's not a myth like how the world was created, or how the zebra got it stripes type of story, the children think an actual man comes down the chimney and gives them presents.

Santa seems to be very central to many of your Christmases, which I find very sad.

And I love Christmas, don't get me wrong, I cry at Elf and everything, but I can't get over this manipulative lie.

If we just wash over 'lie' for the moment-could you explain how it is manipulative? Who is being manipulated and in what way?

People tell lies to children all the time. The tooth fairy, Santa, The baby Jesus, Granny not smelling, hard work pays off in the end, it won't hurt, etc. Children have the chance to sue you when they grow up but they don't. They join in and tell lies themselves. Children should be lied to regularly and for no reason other than to mess with their minds.
Tell them you get milk from tiny cows you keep in the fridge. Tell them all postmen are called Beverly. Tell them that stars are lightbulbs and that the sky can be reached with a long ladder. Tell them that if you keep a poo somewhere quiet and dark and water it and give it sweets it will turn into a baby.

exotic, the point of Santa is to blackmail children into behaving. The carrot to the bogeyman's stick if you will.

Well, I think posters like you are miserable cows OP.
It's magic, it's fantasy and it's about using your imagination.
Fair enough if you don't have one but I pity your grey world.

What a strange idea, TimeWasting. My FC is unconditional-it has nothing to do with behaviour.
I don't even go with soverylucky's examples.

Reality is shit, when they're little let them enjoy the fantasy until they are old enough to realise life is not like that.

And the OP's a "miserable cow", LadyBeagleEyes?

????

What has swallowing our sick societies fantasy of what Christmas is about whole got to with imagination LadyBeagle?

Meh!

If you don't want to do it, then don't.

But if people do want to, then just let them. And don;t spoil it for those children.

As for it being a manipulative lie I don't buy it. It's a story. A lovely, magical, kind, fantasy story that little ones can believe in for a while. Never ever ever outside of Mn have I ever yet to meet any child or adult that has been negatively affected by the existence of a Father Christmas in their life;

Oh there, you've hit it on the head, it's like a reverse of the slave mentality that lets us put up with a shit life now for the promise of paradise in the afterlife.

I don't think life does have to be shit, so no need to wallow in fantasy.

I love the whole Santa thing, it's so lovely to see the excitement on children's faces and I really don't see why someone would have issue with that?

It doesn't mean that children are being manipulated, or that they don't grow up to understand the true meaning of christmas or anything else.

It is simply a way of making chiristmas even more magical for a lot of children for a few years until they realise the truth and then get over it and enjoy Christmas in a different way!

I'm not trying to stop people doing anything, I'm questioning it. Important distinction.

No, I said posters like her are miserable cows. It was not a direct insult.
And I honestly will never understand the posters who disapprove of Santa, like I said above, a little bit of magic with young children can never do any harm.
So yes, I pretty much stand by my post. Plump.

I bet your DC has a barrel of laughs at Christmas with that big a chip on your shoulder TimeWasting! Better to forget it all and spread a bit of magic and fantasy. If life turns out to be shit (which it may not) then at least you have magical childhood Christmases to look back on. It is the solid, loving, childhood (with magic) that makes me a strong person as an adult. I wouldn't like to look back on the grey,boring 'we must have the truth'.