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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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to despise lying to children?

237 replies

TimeWasting · 11/12/2011 00:19

I hate that it's the main wondrous magical part of Christmas for them, about receiving stuff rather than giving and that it's a basic lie.

I think it makes Christmas shit.

OP posts:
TimeWasting · 11/12/2011 22:53

valium, the point about the random strangers is that it's everywhere, it's not easy to avoid.
DS has been taught about Santa at school and seems to believe it, and when his Aunty asked him what he was getting he replied with 'a bike'. I'm not buying him a bike.
Yes, the magic of Christmas, confused and disappointed 3 year olds.

OP posts:
Maryz · 11/12/2011 22:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Sirzy · 11/12/2011 22:54

It isn't hard to make a child realise that just because they ask for something (Santa or no Santa) they don't necesseily have to get it! To blame santa for your son wanting a bike is a bit odd really!

Maryz · 11/12/2011 22:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

startail · 11/12/2011 23:22

I wasn't brought up to believe in Father Christmas (I wasn't brought up to believe in god or fairies either). My parents are logical souls. To my parents both were lies and you didn't tell lies.
DH's family did do FC (and God).
DH insisted that the DDs were brought up to believe in FC, which I went along with because all their friends did. Must confess I was quite glad when they stopped. It always felt a bit silly.
(DH has to accept that FC I could cope with for a short period, but I will never pretend their is any kind of god).

startail · 11/12/2011 23:22

ThereBlush

lurkinginthebackground · 11/12/2011 23:36

I don't get all this "not lying" stuff.
I encourage my children to tell the truth and to be fair have always said that if my ds loses a sportsmatch, then it is because the other team played better. However the number of times I have heard parents of opposing teams basically lying to their children when they have been beaten is incredible. "Oh Johnny your team should have won. You were the better team." Er no they were the worst team that is why they have lost.
Who and where are all these honest parents? Certainly not on the same pitch as me!!!!!

The same at dance competitions.
Oh little Katie you should have won. Er no you didn't win because someone else outperformed you and can clearly dance to a higher standard than precious little Katie.

Again how many threads do we see where parents complain because the same gifted, talented kids get the lead parts in the school play, yet posters are up in arms about it. Well if that child is better than their kid what do they tell them? I bet the same parents who would lie about that then say I never tell lies!!!!!

SoupDragon · 12/12/2011 07:36

Mine haven't always got everything they asked Santa for and there has never been a confused and disappointed child on Christmas morning.

exoticfruits · 12/12/2011 07:49

Mine certainly haven't got everything they ask for, they knew from an early age that they were suggestions. It never spoilt Christmas-they were never confused or disappointed. Santa, like everyone, isn't a robot-he has a mind of his own!

So suggesting I just don't do the FC thing with mine obviously isn't that realistic an option is it?

Of course it is an option-do it your way. What you can't stop is nursery, pensioners etc doing it their way.
Once people have DCs they seem to think that they can control their entire environment! You can control what you do. If you are not happy with FC then don't have him! It is easy to explain to a DC 'this is what some people believe'.

itsbrandybutterandtinseltime · 12/12/2011 08:23

I see where you're coming from, but it's only a bit of fun. My parents (for all their many, MANY faults) were very generous at Christmas time and carried on with the Father Christmas thing for as long as I wanted to.

I am now such a huge fan of giving, I really enjoy the whole thing; the choosing of the gifts right up until the moment they open it. It isn't like it's a lie that's hurting people.

But if you don't want to; your children, your choice. It's kind of a non starter for me. Meh.

wildstrawberryplace · 12/12/2011 10:55

I'd be happy to go along with whatever my DC want at Christmas, and we "do" Father Christmas but I'm not going to construct an elaborate pretence around like it and try to protect them from finding out, but rather follow their lead and let it be an enjoyable fun thing. It's supposed to be a bit of harmless fun and that works both ways. FWIW I do know people who were bitterly disappointed when they realised there was no Father Christmas and one of my relatives even says that when she realised that her parents had lied about Father Christmas, she decided that they must be lying about god too and to this day is an atheist.

TimeWasting · 12/12/2011 11:35

Soup, I know my little boy though, he does confusion and disappointment expertly.

exotic, that's the point, I can't control the environment, therefore I can't just opt out as I'm being advised and that is why I'm pissed off.
Because everyone else is wrong, again, and it's impacting on my lifestyle. Grin

OP posts:
OuchHolly · 12/12/2011 11:36

wasting you seem to be getting an un-necessarily harsh time about this. (Admittedly i have only read about 3/4s of the thread). However, there is several aspects to this:
Commericialisation
Lying
Encouraging Pretend and indulging in the believe of magic.

I totally agree with you on the fact that christmas has been commercialised beyond belief and that a lot of people focus on what they get rather then what they recieve. However, this can be changed with the correct influence. Your ds is still young he can believe it is what you give to be most import. We make a big fuss about ds chosing the present he give to me or his dad. And whilst we are separated and have little to do with each other we still make the effort with regards to presents for birthdays and christmas because it is a lovely surprise. Ds needless to say is bursting with christmas secrets as to what he has got each of us and has said on numerous occasions I can't wait til you get your christmas present... he is not the most sutble yet bless Grin
Yes he is looking for to getting presents but you don't hear much about what am i getting, or i want.

As for lying to children. I can think of few occassions where lying is acceptable. And those all include for the preservation and benefit of the child and its (be girl or boy) innocence. I don't agree.

Encouraging imagination: We do this a lot when they are younger. Oh are you pretending to be a fireman, Come on fireman sam why don't we go find a fire to put out... etc etc. This is healthy part of growing up. But consider this. How would you feel if you had a child that didn't pretend, didn't believe in god (and could justify it logically), and didn't believe in father christmas? Like ever? Tbh it is partially soul destroying but you know what despite having a child like this we still do stockings because it is a fun thing to do. He is under no illusion that a man comes down the chimney, he is under no illusions that anyone other then us make up the stocking and he loves every minute. It is an interesting compromise between his lack of belief and my wish to try to give him the magic i felt as a child. We do the whole game, but i feel cheated a bit, and he doesn't fully understand the magic.

Don't spoil something that lasts only a few years anyway, make it something that you want it to be

Stockings in this house, tooth brush, book, chocolate (not much but a bit), a few bits of stationary (age appropriate), notebook/diary, and a toy £2-3 worth. Total stocking about £10. Christmas present budget £10-15 for me/ex. Admittedly we spend a little more on ds but he often gets things he needs like clothes wrapped up for him to open. And you know what he loves the fact he gets a new jumper etc as much if not more then the toy some aunt bought him.

christmas is about making your own traditions I refused ex's tradition that santa brought everything. Now we have seperate christmas i shall be making a few more traditions. My christmas my way.

Stop worrying and enjoy. FC only lasts a decade at most. and in the bigger picture that is no time at all.

SoupDragon · 12/12/2011 11:55

Yes, you know your child. It's your job to manage his expectations.

valiumredhead · 12/12/2011 12:42

I can't control the environment, therefore I can't just opt out

Of course you bloody can - don't be so daft!

We are not particularly religious - dh is a Catholic and I am C of E so ds is a product of our beliefs which is really the good nice bits of both religions! So when he came home from school and said 'When you die you go to heaven, is that true?' I said ' Some people believe you do and others don't what do you believe?.' He said ' I believe in heaven, as I'll see Nanny again.' Quick hug end of discussion. Do the same with FC OP - just be guided by your dc. If you aren't comfortable making a big deal of FC - don't do it.

NeuromanticisedVisionsofXmas · 12/12/2011 13:56

Wow. You fucked up somewhere along the way if you think SAnta is a sick fantasy thats only purpose is to blackmail children into behaving.

Major wrong turn somewhere. Your mind must be a dark dark place!

mumeeee · 12/12/2011 14:08

Timewasting. FC was never used to make our children behave. He always came whatever their behaviour had been like, We still do stockings and pretending in our family although the youngest is now19. Of course they don't believe they just like all the silly Christmas Stuff.

ScarlettCrossbones · 12/12/2011 14:53

Look. Telling a little white lie about something to spare children's feelings is COMPLETELY different from DELIBERATELY CONCOCTING an entire fantasy from scratch, which has no basis in reality, and introducing it to them from a young age as the absolute truth, which is what many parents do when it comes to Santa. Just because that's the way it's been done for generations doesn't make it right.

Trying to suggest that those parents who choose not to lie to their kids about Santa must also be the same ones who will be brutally and unnecessarily honest about their son's big nose or their daughter's inability to make friends or whatever, is waaay wide of the mark and just stirring. Of course we don't do that!

If someone decided to start the Cult of the July Unicorn or something, spinning a yarn to their kids that on the 3rd of July, an orange unicorn called Frank trotted around their living room at night leaving flowers down the sofa cushions - I mean really, truly TELLING their kids that this, in all seriousness, was what absolutely happened on the 3rd July - people would think they were bonkers! So why is Santa any different?

Children are perfectly capable of making their own magical pretend make-believe worlds, it doesn't have to be drip-fed to them wholesale by adults. I just find it so patronising.

I loved pretending I could hear Rudolph on the roof, leaving out mince pies and carrots etc etc, and the utter stomach-churning excitement of realising the stocking was full in the morning!! - but I never actually believed Santa was real.

exoticfruits · 12/12/2011 16:06

exotic, that's the point, I can't control the environment, therefore I can't just opt out as I'm being advised and that is why I'm pissed off.
Because everyone else is wrong, again, and it's impacting on my lifestyle

You could put your own spin on it. Do the whole legend of St Nicholas and then say that parents thought it was lovely and fill the stockings, but pretend it was Santa Claus, but he isn't to tell other DCs because some really don't know it is pretend. That way, he gets his stocking, he can answer questions from pensioners, understand stories at nursery and yet you don't have to do something that you are uncomfortable with. (or you could just 'go with the flow' Xmas Grin

valiumredhead · 12/12/2011 16:41

Oh scarlet thank you! You have just summed up in one post what I have been trying to say all thread! Grin

valiumredhead · 12/12/2011 16:44

You could put your own spin on it. Do the whole legend of St Nicholas and then say that parents thought it was lovely and fill the stockings, but pretend it was Santa Claus, but he isn't to tell other DCs because some really don't know it is pretend. That way, he gets his stocking, he can answer questions from pensioners, understand stories at nursery and yet you don't have to do something that you are uncomfortable with. (or you could just 'go with the flow' which is basically what happens in our family :)

halcyondays · 12/12/2011 17:24

Santa doesn't have to be about getting loads of stuff, traditionally you just got a tangerine and a few small bits in our stocking. It isn't so much about what you get from Santa, it's about the magic and the reindeer and the sleigh bells, writing a letter to Santa and leaving out a mince pie. I remember waking up on Xmas morning and being so excited when I saw my stocking at the end of my bed, it didn't really matter what was in it, it was just the whole idea of Santa bringing you something.

halcyondays · 12/12/2011 17:28

He'd probably still want a bike even if people hadn't asked him about Santa.

exoticfruits · 12/12/2011 17:49

He can really be whatever you want. Before MN I had no idea what other people did. Even if you think it lying you can do the legend, and

'Twas the night before Christmas, when all through the house
Not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse.........etc

There are also lots of lovely stories such as Mrs Christmas here

There is no need for your DC to miss out totally-you can tell them your 'truth' but have the films, songs and literature.

I like NORAD tracking Santa on Christmas Eve (despite having no DCs who believe Xmas Grin)

exoticfruits · 12/12/2011 17:50

Sorry-intended to give NORAD link here

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