...to treat DW's sexting as infidelity?

[JackMatthias]

First post here so deep breath...

DW and I have been married for over 10 years and have 2 DCs aged 3 and 8. Good marriage IMO except physical side has never been that great for either of us. Anyway, all well until after birth of DC #2:

A few months after DC # 2 was born, her mobile text alert bleeps. She happens to be out of the room, her phone is next to me so I glance at it and see on it quite a flirtatious text from someone whom we'll call 'John'. Curiousity piqued, I grab the phone and see two or three texts back and forth between DW and John which are also flirty. I feel sick and I confront her over this and it turns out that John is an old flame from before my time. I make it clear how hurt and upset I am and she promises she'll not do it again. I feel bad about snooping and make up my mind to trust her. She swears blind that there's nothing in it; as far as she's concerned it's just a bit of harmless fun.

Ok, so I forgive, forget and move on. Until about three months ago - exactly the same thing happens. More traffic between her and John on her phone, this time of a more sexual nature on both their parts, although the impression is that he's largely the one driving it forward. This time I really blow up at her, tell her how angry I am, how betrayed I feel and that I feel I can't trust her. Again, she swears that it is purely a bit of fun, that it;s just an 'outlet', she has her ego massaged by it and she would never dream of cheating on me with this mush. I 'punish' her by sleeping apart from her for several days but gradually forgive her...

But this time I don't forget; I feel I can no longer trust. I don't feel bad about snooping on her phone any more and, guess what, more texts last week between her and John, more explicit, again mainly driven by him although she is hardly fending him off. This time I haven't confronted her, as the last two occasions clearly achieved Sweet FA but really don't know what to do about it. I haven't been able to get to her phone this week but am sure this is continuing, as I'm sure that what I've seen are just the texts she hasn't deleted.

Right now, I feel absolutely devastated, betrayed, very hurt, very angry but also very scared. I want our marriage to work and am willing to consider Relate or something similar (but that would involve me 'fessing up to her that I know about the latest bunch of texts), and I don't want to lose her or our DCs, but I find the whole situation really intolerable. I still love her very much but find it really difficult to be around her right now (she's noticed I'm withdrawn ATM). I'm also really worried that this latest rack of texts I've seen seems to be an escalation and that she will end up having an affair with John. Feel sick constantly and can't sleep ATM.

I feel really conflicted right now. Part of me want to throw her out but I still love her and don't want to do that to our DCs. Part of me wonders whether this is just an escapist fantasy for her and not unfaithfulness from her POV(maybe the female version of blokes looking at porn?) and I should just put up with it (not sure I can though) and play happy families and pretend nothing's happening. Part of me wants to track John down and send him a photo of the DCs asking him what his intentions are to my DW and how I should tell the DCs that, or even go postal on him and beat the bastard up!

So wtf should I do???!!!

I completely agree with mynewpassion.

It's like you caught her forgetting to turn the kitchen light off.

"Oops! Shit. Sorry. Anyway, it was YOUR fault for turning it on in the first place."

Mynewpassion, things have been a bit better yesterday. She has set up our first counselling appt.

Runningwilde, we've never really 'clicked' sexually (or rather she's never really 'clicked' with me; more often than not she doesn't enjoy it, so I always feel that I'm 'imposing'). Factor in also that we've been on ADs for a few years - her for PND and me, well, for just being me - and that knocks the libido down even more for the both of us

Are her children yours Jack? If they are, and if your DW hasn't been sleeping round, then she hasn't been unfaithful. You are not her thought police, or her boss: she doesn't have to do what you tell her.

Hey, a girl can dream; I quite like Brad Pitt myself, now that he's less of a pretty boy! and as you say, John has been driving it along. A friend of mine always says, it doesn't matter where you get your appetite, so long as you eat at home.

I don't think your wife is 'ruining your marriage'. It's her marriage too: and it sounds like you have real communication problems and very differing expectations.

I think you both need to go to therapy, and to learn how to communicate. Punishing her by withdrawing from her was probably the start of her looking for something other than you are offering.

You sound like you take her for granted a bit, and have made all kind of strange assumptions about being married - like as if you a perfect marriage exists somewhere outside the couple.

You don't mention how attractive you find your wife, or how you tell her and show her you love her. You sound bossy and sulky to me - not attractive traits in my book - maybe not your DW's either.
Couples therapy?

Sorry, it's like as if you think a perfect marriage exists somewhere outside the couple.

It's hard work being married, work.... you know.... maybe with her PND and your underlying depression you should lower your expectations of 'being married', and just give yourself time to get better mental health.

I'm sorry , Underbeneathsies but I disagree with you. I do regard it as unfaithfulness and feel very betrayed and let down by her. I do compliment her on her looks and say I find her sexy etc but ATM don't feel like doing either. No, she doesn't have to do what I tell her but where she knows as she did that this sort of thing really hurts me, the fact that she ignores me does on at least one level speak volumes about how she regards me. It would be similar if I made a habit of flirting with womene when we were at social engagements: I'd like to think (a) that I wouldn't do it in the first place but if I did then (b) I would darn well stop if she asked me too; in that sense she and I are or should be each others' 'bosses' as you put it and, if we love each other, we should respect each others' feelings too in this way.

For the record, yes, they are my children. Also, if you re-read my OP, you willl see that I withdrew from her only after I discovered for the second time that she'd been 'looking for something other than I'd been offering', as you put it. And I don't know what you mean by 'strange assumptions'; if by that you mean that I'm not into an open, or quasi-open marriage, then you're darn right. Please clarify what you mean, cos I'm having a hard time understanding where you're coming from on this.

Being a bit tentative here.... I know you did not ask for advice for sexual compatibility, but I find that one does not often "click", but has to work at finding something that works for both, and that both find enjoyable. Various ways of trying and exploring. ADs aside, how active and healthy are you both?

Underbeneathsies - OPs wife hasn't just been fantasising though has she. There's another man involved and a relationship being formed, albeit through texts.

Both slightly overweight but both exercise regularly (gym and other ways) and eat healthily

I guess I am sounding a bit like a broken record, but for anybody who wants to feel better, I keep advocating oily fish (omega 3) and cardiovascular exercise. Both are excellent mood boosters. The exercise release the bodys own anti depressants, and natural omega 3 (from fat fish) is also a natural anti depressant. Do you take exercise together? My husband dragged me out of pnd by investing in bicycles for us all. Free exercise and family days out on bikes. We had the kids (then 4 and 1) on tow bars and in baby trailers, packed a picnic and set out. I also suffered from PND and was prescribed anti depressants, but ended up not taking them. Dh said to me "Look, our life is shit, anybody looking at our life will agree. Lets not take those tablets, but work actively to change our life so it is NOT shit first and see how it goes." The first step was the bikes, exercise, fresh air and family days out, it was a miracle.

Oh, and the smoked salmon sandwiches he started making me for lunch every day certainly helped.

I think you both need to sort out your health and your depressions.

The marriage sounds like it's on auto pilot, and i don't blame your DW for having a fantasy as she has PND and is on meds, as are you.

All this blaming and withholding forgiveness is just a symptom of depression.

But I don't think this is a black and white event. Your DW has not been unfaithful (just unwise), and I think you were way OTT to act out when you were angry (even if you feel you deserve to be angry and that that anger justifies your actions) By calling John, shouting at him, and to delete a number from her phone, that's way over the top - it's very controlling.

I think you need to sort out your mental health and she needs to sort out hers and then you need to sort out whether you are right for each other. My gut feeling says that you may stay together for your children, but that neither of you will be very happy together.

I think you both have a lot of work to do personally and together. Whether that's talk therapy or exercise and omega 3 oils is up to you. Give yourself a target of six months to reach your ideal weight, and to have a better outlook, before you do anything about your marriage.

My actions were wholly justified IMO

I agree with what underbeneath is saying about your health, mental health and how your marriage suffers due to both your depressions. However, I do feel that you were justified, it is a betrayal. It is however more understandable why she acted this way, if your marriage and your health is not very good at the moment. She would have been wise to focus on your issues rather than looking for a ray of happiness elsewhere. Maybe you both need to focus on that. And therapy is a good idea.

She didn't just have a fantasy, she acted on it.

No she didn't act on her fantasy Jack. You know that you are being unreasonable now, and I feel you are now getting angry with me - all well and good, but is that me making you angry? No, and your wife is not making you angry either. You are the boss of you, only.

Your actions were not justified, no matter how angry you were.
breaking up the furniture?
Deleting her phone numbers?
Shouting at people on the phone?

You need to take responsibility for your own actions sunshine, and I do hope you aren't going to use this thread to justify anymore violence.

Where were your kids when you went on this rampage of breaking up the furniture?

I case you missed my point, you were not justified to act out in this controlling and violent way. You are justified to your feelings, but you have to own them and take responsibility to vent them in a way that doesn't hurt other people.

I strongly suggest therapy, getting some physical exercise, and leave off breaking up the furnishings, shouting and controlling. You are depressed, and you need to get well and fit. Book and appointment to see a therapist for yourself asap.

i've totally missed the bits you're referring to underbeneathsies - are you talking about "throwing soft furnishings around"? (i take from this throwing some cushions around)?

deleting john's phone number? yep a bit insecure, but hell he has reason to. shouting at people on the phone? i can't find that bit at all.

pls enlighten me how the op has reacted in a 'controlling and violent way' ... i don't remember reading anything about violence.

he's waited until the kids are in bed when he's confronted his wife. he hasn't involved them at all has he?

underneath - there are also lots of posters who believe the op's wife has acted on her fantasy, by having albeit an emotional affair. from memory, the majority feel she has acted on the fantasy by having a relationship with another man.

oh by 'shouting at people on the phone', you're referring to john?

I threw some cushions around; hardly a 'rampage of breaking up the furniture'. You're right: I am getting angry with you, but not for the reasons you think; I am getting angry with you because you don't seem to read my posts properly or at least read into them only what you want to see. Again, if you read the post properly you would have seen that my children were all asleep in bed, and so you wouldn't have had to ask the question. I also did not shout at John - you merely assumed that I did. I am justified in deleting the number because that number at that point was a threat to our marriage and because my DW did act on her fantasy (in what way is sexting someone not an action?).

Sorry, CPs with Sheeplikessleep

Ive come to this thread late but agree with everything underbeneathsies has said. The OPs wife has not had an affair, a couple of texts have gone between her and an old flame. She has given her reasons for this and it seems to be a big misjudgement on her part but she hasnt 'acted on her fantasies'. The hysterics that this has generated from the OP seems a massive over-reaction. I suspect alot more than this texting episode will come out in counselling. And the repeated mentioning of the OP 'punishing' or wanting to 'punish' his wife leaves me very uncomfortable.

JAck, I can not believe Underbeneath's comments and I hope you ignore them - really can not understand their motivation to lash out at you without actually reading the posts.. I feel angry on your behalf..

Have read your story and I wish you well - there is a lot of positive support on this thread for you and the way you are handling this - so hope you can ignore the crap.

Underbeneathsies Jack said that he threw some soft furnishings around, not that he broke up furniture.

She has acted on her fantasy IMHO, by continuing to text John, even though Jack has found out about this twice before, and she said she would stop; but blatantly carried on.

You are obviously free to express your opinion that sexting is not infidelity. I am a woman who has had both a physical affair (which started with sexting) and an emotional affair (which included sexting) and I believe that both of these were infidelity. Infidelity is not just about the act but also about the emotional withdrawl from your primary partner in favour of another person. You talked about a perfect marriage upthread - surely the least one can hope for is fidelity?

I don't think that Jack is being bossy or controlling. His reaction is a natural reaction to finding out that his wife has been, in his eyes (and in mine) unfaithful for the THIRD time.

I agree that there are obviously some communication issues here, and that the healthy eating/living advice that Quint gives are well worth considering. The counselling that DW has already set in motion should, with a lot of work on both sides, help both parties decide where they go from here.

agree with ilovemyteddy

So, ilovemyteddy if a couple of flirty texts is now infidelity does that mean a bit of a flirt with someone from the opposite sex is now infidelity as well. Does a bit of banter with someone in a bar for instance constitute infielity. if that the case Ive unwittingly been unfaithful to my DH a fair few times over the years, and here was me thinking Id had 20 + years of happy marriaige

Have just caught up with this thread again Jack, but posted earlier on it.

Fortunately, Relate agree with all the posters on your thread who are not seeking to minimise your wife's actions. See this:

www.relate.org.uk/common-problem-details/504/index.html

Your feelings are all valid, normal and understandable. I hope that if you are seeing a Relate counsellor, this person is 'on message' with their own website. IME the competence of their counsellors varies hugely and their training about this issue is very poor.

Simone - everyone's acceptable 'level' is different.

BUT, a) this is an ex b) this is the third time it's happened and c) each time it's the same man. This is totally different to a bit of flirty banter for a couple of minutes in a bar. The OPs wife is going back to the same man each time and keeping it secret from the OP.

I wouldn't care if DH had 'banter' in a bar. I would totally care if he was repeatedly texting her inappropriately and over a period of time and keeping it secret from me and investing time in that relationship. That is essentially what it is - a relationship, not a 2 minute 'flirt'.