...to treat DW's sexting as infidelity?

[JackMatthias]

First post here so deep breath...

DW and I have been married for over 10 years and have 2 DCs aged 3 and 8. Good marriage IMO except physical side has never been that great for either of us. Anyway, all well until after birth of DC #2:

A few months after DC # 2 was born, her mobile text alert bleeps. She happens to be out of the room, her phone is next to me so I glance at it and see on it quite a flirtatious text from someone whom we'll call 'John'. Curiousity piqued, I grab the phone and see two or three texts back and forth between DW and John which are also flirty. I feel sick and I confront her over this and it turns out that John is an old flame from before my time. I make it clear how hurt and upset I am and she promises she'll not do it again. I feel bad about snooping and make up my mind to trust her. She swears blind that there's nothing in it; as far as she's concerned it's just a bit of harmless fun.

Ok, so I forgive, forget and move on. Until about three months ago - exactly the same thing happens. More traffic between her and John on her phone, this time of a more sexual nature on both their parts, although the impression is that he's largely the one driving it forward. This time I really blow up at her, tell her how angry I am, how betrayed I feel and that I feel I can't trust her. Again, she swears that it is purely a bit of fun, that it;s just an 'outlet', she has her ego massaged by it and she would never dream of cheating on me with this mush. I 'punish' her by sleeping apart from her for several days but gradually forgive her...

But this time I don't forget; I feel I can no longer trust. I don't feel bad about snooping on her phone any more and, guess what, more texts last week between her and John, more explicit, again mainly driven by him although she is hardly fending him off. This time I haven't confronted her, as the last two occasions clearly achieved Sweet FA but really don't know what to do about it. I haven't been able to get to her phone this week but am sure this is continuing, as I'm sure that what I've seen are just the texts she hasn't deleted.

Right now, I feel absolutely devastated, betrayed, very hurt, very angry but also very scared. I want our marriage to work and am willing to consider Relate or something similar (but that would involve me 'fessing up to her that I know about the latest bunch of texts), and I don't want to lose her or our DCs, but I find the whole situation really intolerable. I still love her very much but find it really difficult to be around her right now (she's noticed I'm withdrawn ATM). I'm also really worried that this latest rack of texts I've seen seems to be an escalation and that she will end up having an affair with John. Feel sick constantly and can't sleep ATM.

I feel really conflicted right now. Part of me want to throw her out but I still love her and don't want to do that to our DCs. Part of me wonders whether this is just an escapist fantasy for her and not unfaithfulness from her POV(maybe the female version of blokes looking at porn?) and I should just put up with it (not sure I can though) and play happy families and pretend nothing's happening. Part of me wants to track John down and send him a photo of the DCs asking him what his intentions are to my DW and how I should tell the DCs that, or even go postal on him and beat the bastard up!

So wtf should I do???!!!

Still feel like crap. Not looking forward to going home this evening

It's the start of a long process, the counselling will help, book immediately x

Catwalker?s post is very important, Jack, in helping you to understand the possible reasons that your DW indulged in sexting and how things can escalate because of the cheater?s susceptibility to flattery and excitement, rather than a lack of attention at home.

IMHO the best thing you can do now is to give your DW a bit of headspace to think through what she has done, whilst at the same time leaving her under no illusion as to how hurt you are by her infidelity. As well as regaining her respect for you she needs to gain back her self-respect and that can only be done with a period of introspection on her part. I understand your need to fix things with her so that your life together can get back to some kind of nornality, but pushing her for reasons and explanations before she has had time to work things out for herself (and with the help of counselling) is only going to lead her to lash out and blame you, rather than looking at her actions and behaviour. Having said that you also need to respect yourself and make it clear to her that you will no longer put up with her behaviour.

You also have to understand (and this will be hard) that she may grieve for the end of her ?relationship? with John; particularly since she did not make the choice to end it (I know this will be hard to hear, but as an ex-OW who ended her affair herself I did grieve for my OM along with trying to fix my marriage and ultimately myself.)

When DW post about their H?s infidelity they are usually told that they are not to blame ? and this is very often the truth. Men and women often have affairs for a ?bit of fun?, because they crave excitement and are flattered by the attentions of a person who is not their DH/DW. But the aftermath of an affair is about working together as a couple to sort out misperceptions about your relationship. I totally understand why you ?don?t give a fuck about how desirable or not [you] make her feel right now? but, ultimately you will need to work together if you are to stay together.

The Inappropriate Texting thread that I mentioned in my previous post had a lot of information about how many women feel that they ?lose? themselves in domestic work and childcare, loss of career, and lack of time for themselves. It may be worth another look at that thread and exploring whether there is any room to have a more appropriate division of household tasks between the two of you. (I appreciate that you have not talked about this side of your marriage on your thread and I could be barking totally up a wrong tree here.) I think the similarities between your situation and the DH on that thread, plus the excellent advice offered on that thread by a poster who, sadly, does not post here any more, makes that thread worth reading over and over again.

As RunningWilde says it is a long process and the counselling will help. I wish you luck.

When I am at home, we divide the tasks pretty evenly eg: I do ironing and most of the cooking, take it in turns to either wash up after dinner or bath the children and put them to bed. Obviously I can't when I am not at work but DW does work part-time.

Feel really strange today: it feels like she's the one who needs the reassurance and that I'm the one thinking of buying her presents (present-presents, not Christmas ones) and complimenting her, whereas my mind is telling me this should be the other way round! Is this a bizarre form of Stockholm Syndrome?

I think that by doing that Jack, you will be reassuring her but also sending her a very confused message. Like her behaviour was forgiveable? It is, but not yet. I'm not in favour of mind games in a marriage, but I do think that she needs to feel the impact of her misjudgement and SHE needs to start making those reconciliation moves...Otherwise you are tacitly accepting that you were somehow to blame for this. You must not accept that responsibility. First time...yes maybe. Second and third time...absolutely not.

Let her come back to you. She needs to put in the work to fix what she broke. If she doesn't, then you have your answer about your relationship. If you do all the running, you will just be stoking that monstrous needy ego and justifying her need to feel special and cherished. This is not about her this time...its about you. You should be the one getting reassurance.

But maybe your need to demonstrate your love is so that she WILL respond in kind, or at least offer you a crumb of comfort and love. SOunds to me that there has not been any grand effort on her part yet, and so you are trying to fill the void.

STand firm.

How awfull a situation for you

I think you should pick your moment and try your best to make her see how hurt you by her continued contact with this man, not in an angry way
but just your honest hurt.....maybe she's being stubborn maybe she thinks "I'll stop when Im good and ready not when he tells me"

If she realises your pain and carries on regardless then its time to address the real issues because someone who loves you could'nt do that..IMO

Absolutely agree with Hatti and Outwardbound here. As Hatti says her behaviour is forgiveable, but not yet. Particularly since this is the third time this has happened.

But I think it's too soon after your talk, and your revelation that you know what's been going on. Forgive the gender stereotyping on my part but I think your need to buy her presents, to demonstrate your love for her, is a typical man's way of trying to fix things. What she needs is time and space to process her thoughts, and to make sense of what she has done and what she has risked for a bit of ego-stroking. I'm only speaking from my own experience here (and my affairs were not discovered by my DH). I know that she is the one who should be reassuring you, and that this should be your time, but in many ways the aftermath of infidelity is often about the cheating spouse needing to reassure themselves about what led them to cheat, and to work out ways to prevent that from happening again. An affair is a totally selfish act, but during the immediate time after an affair is discovered the cheating partner almost needs to be selfish in order to go on the journey of self-discovery that will prevent it from happening again. Because if they don't take that journey through private thought, conversations with their spouse and counselling, then it is likely that infidelity will occur again. Obviously this didn't happen the first two times you confronted her about the texting, and she carried on.

You have a difficult path to tread here, I think. Outwardbound is absolutely right about you expressing your honest hurt rather than getting angry - and that isn't going to be easy for you. Right now I'm sure your DW is looking for anything and anyone to blame other than herself, and you are going to (unfairly) bear the brunt of this. Relate, and possibly some solo counselling for her, will help you both to unravel what has led her to cheat on you and to help you both see if there is a way forward from your current situation.

So should I be a bit of a bastard or at least could shoulder her for a few days? Part of me just wants things to be 'nice' between us and so I don't want to be a brute.

Jack:

Don't give her the cold shoulder per se but be available for discussion. Make her aware that you are hurt and this is not something that either of you, specifically she, can sweep under the rug or be tolerated.

I would recommend not buying her presents because it will imply that all is forgiven. Let her make the next move.

Are you trusting her to not text John again? Monitoring her isn't ideal but will you believe her if you ask her?

"Don't give her the cold shoulder per se but be available for discussion. Make her aware that you are hurt and this is not something that either of you, specifically she, can sweep under the rug or be tolerated."

Exactly that ^^.

Google I-Statements - this is a technique of being assertive without being aggressive, and shows you taking ownership of your own feelings, rather than saying they are caused by the other person. "I feel sad and angry when I think of you texting John" rather than "You texting John has made me feel sad and angry."

Aww bless you.

You know what though? She knows you. She knows that you will want things to be nice, and that you don't want to exacerbate the situation by 'cold-shouldering' her - just be careful she doesn't take advantage.

You do sound like a good bloke, Jack. Just be yourself.

Don't know about her ability to text John again as I deleted his contact details from her phone.

How do I remind her that I am hurt without racking up the tension between us and making things worse?

You need to find a way to explain that you can't just brush it under the carpet and everything be hunkydory immediately. But you also need to make it clear that you're not going to use it as a stick to beat her with for the next 20 years.

Just talk. Talk and talk.

Oh poor you Jack. This sucks :(

I have been through an almost identical situation with my OH. I exchanged sexual messages with another man (also an old flame) over a period of a few weeks last year. OH didn't find out; I told him myself because I felt the 'affair' was getting out of control and I wanted it to stop. Like you, my OH was devastated and very angry. We went along to Relate (at my OH's request) and had a one-off session there. We decided we didn't need a full course of counselling but continued having serious discussions at home- proper sit-down 'meetings' where we had an agenda to discuss etc.

I can only tell you how/why our situation arose in the hope it might give some clues to why your wife is behaving this way. For the record, I'm not looking to 'blame' my behaviour on anything or anyone, but I think there are a number of things which contributed to it. From my perspective:

-Boredom and loss of my identity in being a SAHM.
-I have had some mental health problems since having DCs and wasn't having any treatment at the time.
-OH and I had reached stalemate on the issue of whether or not to have any more children. I wanted one, he didn't. I resented him for it and perhaps my resentment played a part in what I did.
-My OH was working ALL THE TIME. I wish I was exaggerating but I'm not. He had no time for me at all but I couldn't begrudge it because he was working really hard to get his business off the ground.
-What I got from the texting was a big kick: an ego boost, flattery, a rush of lust.
-The fact that the OM was someone from my youth made me feel really young and desirable again.

Incidentally, your sex life with your DW might be a red herring. My OH and I have always had a really good sex life so it wasn't as if I was sexually frustrated or anything like that.

Another thing that might be worth thinking about is this. Again, I can't speak for your wife but in my case, it took quite a long time for my conscience to kick in. As I said, I told OH about the 'affair' because I was scared of what I was getting into. I didn't feel any remorse for quite some time. That sounds awful, I know, especially as my husband is a really wonderful, considerate and caring person. I knew I should feel guilty but I didn't for ages. For me, having a crush/infatuation was really intoxicating. I look back upon that time and can't remember how I felt. I look back and I can't understand the actions I took. But at the time, it was highly addictive and breaking off the contact was incredibly difficult. Just throwing this in in case this is how your wife is feeling. It might explain why she has repeated the behaviour and gone back on promises she's made to you.

We have moved on now. OH has forgiven me but he still finds it hard to trust me sometimes and I can understand that. I DO feel remorseful now.

Your wife is going to have to be completely honest with you if you are to find a way through this together. For the record, you sound really quite lovely from your initial post and I'm so sorry this is happening to you. If I could rewind and change things, there's absolutely no way I'd do what I did. I am haunted by how much I hurt OH and how very close I came to losing him.

All the very best to you both for the future.

Have missed loads of posts while I was writing that long-winded one! Agree with Abby that you sound like a good bloke and that talking as much as poss is the way forward. We both found all the talking very hard-going but we had to do it and it has helped us enormously.

You should tell her that you dont trust her. All it takes for her to be texting him again, is that he rings her, or that she goes into the call log to retrieve his number.

If I were you, I would ask her to let you look at her phone, without giving her a chance to delete anything. You might find that she has been in touch with him, from her call log, or messages sent.

You should tell her that you dont trust her, and she needs to rebuild your trust in her. That you cant just forgive and forget what she has done, and that she should not even for a moment think that you are going to comfort her for her loss of John, that she appears to be moping about the house with, and as for her hurt? It is pretty self inflicted, she has an emotional affair with another man, and she has so far done nothing to comfort and reassure you.

You just need to let her know this. She is not the wronged party, you are.

I might be missing something here but just because you delete someone's contact info on the phone, doesn't mean that she doesn't know it by heart or find a way to get it again. With that many texts, you got to believe that she knows the number.

And Abby has it right that you need to talk, talk, talk. Even if its a bit each day but you need to talk. Talk about going to Relate and make an appointment.

Just don't make nice yet.

Quintessentiallyfestive, you mention about the 'loss' of John. How do you think she will achieve 'closure' on this relationship?

Possibly not until she realizes that she has wronged you, and comes to terms with what made her act this way in the first place. It may take some time, but it is her cross to bear, if you see what I mean. You cant carry that for her. She needs to do some deep thinking within herself. Talking to her, and explaining your position to her might help her see this. But you cant keep punishing her for ever, or blanking her. You need to work through this for yourself too. Because even though she did not physically betray you, she did so emotionally, but, she did not actually do anything.

I mean, I lust after captain jack sparrow. What I do in my mind is my business, it does not affect my husband in any way. I dont lumber him with it, I might imagine him as a pirate (sorry for being personal) but it does not harm him or our relationship. Fantasies are one thing, they are personal, but what your wife has done is a step further in that her fantasies have involved a real person, and interacted with a real person. And that is where they betrayal comes in. It is the grey area between a personal fantasy and an actual affair.

Thx. So I can't really help her there...

Jack, I don't think there is really much you can do - it is ultimately up to her. If she was texting partly out of boredom or loneliness you might want to look at that part of your lives? My DH would come in at night and sit down with a laptop for the rest of the evening -would hardly even look up when food was put in front of him. Or come into the room where I was and turn the tv over to football without a word. So I would retire to bed, (he wouldn't notice I had even left the room) and start texting. Have you considered when the texting was happening? If you were doing any of the above, perhaps you could try to engage with her and fill those times with something? Sorry - probably not much help.

I had a friend who was married and started texting a guy at her work, she said that it started of playful and ended up pretty full on and she felt so guilty that she stopped doing it because she knew how wrong it was and that she felt like she was cheating on her DH. So the fact that your wife doesnt care and sees nothing wrong with it is really bad. Anyone in a committed relationship would stop once it hit a certain point if they had any respect for their partner. She obviously has no respect for you, you need to stand up for yourself. You being strong and not letting this go is the only thing that could possibly save your marriage. She needs to see you in a different light as she obviously sees you as a doormat.

I think the sexting was happening whilst she was out and about or in bed next to me after I'd fallen asleep, looking at the timings, so not a lot I can do about that!

Jack: I would disagree that she sees you as a doormat. Its not about you or your family but about her and her selfishness. Her excuses are all about her, her, her. Instead of trying to figure out how to get your marriage out of a rut, she figured out her to get herself out of a rut.

How's it been in the last couple of days? Has she said anymore about why and how it came about? She must come clean, be open and honest about the whole sexting. I get the feeling that you guys haven't even scratched the surface on this yet.

You said the physical side has never been that good? Why is that? That is a big deal.