...to be considering withdrawing my child from collective worship next year

[Hopstheduck]

First time posting in aibu, please be gentle!

Starting thinking about this because the dts have a church service next week and we dont want them to attend. We are more than happy for them to learn about other religions, visit churches, etc. but feel uncomfortable with the idea of them actively participating.

Next sept they will be starting at a C of E junior school and I am wondering about whether to approach the school regarding religion in the assemblies. I know that on occasion the vicar leads these, and I dont want the dts becoming confused, or being expected to participate in christian acts of worship.

It seems to be uncommon these days to withdraw a child. I'd love to know if anyone else has approached it and how it worked out.

talkinpeace you always say that on these threads too!

but our society is nothing like US society

and I doubt the fact that their society is as it is vis a vis religion has anything to do with the state schools being secular

If it's of any interest, OP, my DD attends an RC primary school. As it's private, it accepts children of any religion, providing they are prepared to accept that the school has an RC ethos. Consequently, given the make up of the local area, DD is only 1 of 3 RC children in her year. Most other children are Hindu, with a couple of Muslims and Sikhs. None of their parents have any problems with the RC environment of the school, the prayers etc., because they reinforce their own faiths at home. There's also no confusion that I've noticed in the children, they're very aware of their identity in faith - to the extent that the boy DD had a crush on in year 1 told her he couldn't marry her because she wasn't a Sikh!

Perhaps you should speak to the Head about your concerns, and perhaps think about how you and your DH practice and teach your faith at home. Or maybe speak to the local Hindu temple and see what advice they have to give?

Gnome - how well do you think Islam is understood in the Netherlands? Because my impression is that the answer is not well at all.

The problem with the USA is that they've gone a step too far interpreting the division of religion from state and don't teach RE.

State schools should be secular but all schools should be required to teach a properly balanced RE syllabus which informs the pupils about a wide range of religions (and should include non-religious world views too, obviously).

Purple - you just don't seem to get that for too many people there simply is no realistic choice except a faith school. I was lucky enough to be able to choose a non-faith school only because I had enough money to pay fees and enough time and a car for transport. If you are reliant on foot, bike or public transport in rural areas for school transport then your choices are strictly limited.

'Choice' is too often a luxury only available to the affluent middle classes. The poor have no choice but to 'suck it up'.

Hopsthe duck I share your unease about the way it is difficult to find a school that is not in some way affliated to one religion or another. My daughter will have to attend a C of E school simply because we live in a rural area and it is the local school. We have no religion at home, although I feel we are giving her a moral upbringing. I have no objection to her finding out about different faiths and even chosing to belong to one later in life, but only when she is mature enough to make an informed choice. Until then, I think I will tell her that all the Christian stuff she encounters at school are 'stories that some people believe', and that belief isn't compulsary. I hope she will grow up to respect the fact that different people can see the world in different ways.

I can't get my head around half the family being of one faith, and the other half another. I'd demand that everyone was atheist just to make my life easier, I think As for the school...it's up to you. You can withdraw them from active worship if you want. I don't actually think it's that big a deal either way, and I doubt the school will care much.

nothing wrong about a church of England school no harm will come of your child participating and if your keen for your child to learn other religions whats wrong with them learning about christianity,

"nothing wrong about a church of England school no harm will come of your child participating and if your keen for your child to learn other religions whats wrong with them learning about christianity,"

Would you say the same if your local state school had a strongly religious agenda that was different from your own belief system - Buddhist, Hindu, Jewish or Islamic for example? And you were sending your child there as a non-member of that religion?

As the OP has repeatedly said, it's not learning about other religions that is the problem, it's being expected to participate in active worship and being taught that the school's religion is the 'right' religion.

well i wouldent send them in the first place PAINTCHARTHEAVEN to a church of England school if she feels so strongly about it.

dont fucking send them to a c of e school then

I HAVE TO SAY THIS MY DD GOES TO A CHURCH OF ENGLAND SCHOOL i an not religious recently i let my dd go to a temple that was muslim did i withdrew her out NO I LET HER GO AND SHE LEARNED ABOUT A DIFFERENT RELIGION THAT DAY.

thank you Paintchart, exactly what I am trying to say.

Knockneed - my hindu children have visited churches, to LEARN about them. Not to participate.

Muslims pray in a mosque, not a temple, and I bet your children weren't expected to pray to Allah.

knockkneed I'm not sure why you are shouting

You are missing two points

Many people have no real choice but a religious school

There is a difference between learning about a religion, and practicing that religion. Can't you see the difference between 1 educational visit to a Hindu temple, and worshipping every day? Worshipping is not learning about a religion, it is practicing it. Children at religious schools are expected to practice the religion - worship in word and in song, pray, be taught the relevant stories. That is not the same as learning about a religion.

"dont fucking send them to a c of e school then"

So everyone should send be sending their child to a school of the appropriate religion (or atheist school, if that is what the family is)?

a) It would be impossible to get the right amount of school places per area to take account of each child's religion (or lack of).

b) There is no such thing as an officially 'non-religious' school in England (in Scotland I believe your 'choice' is Catholic or non-denominational)

Religious state schools make no practical or moral sense.

oh and

c) Would it be a desirable thing to segregate every child in the country into schools according to their belief systems? I don't think so.

well thanks for pointing that out sardineQueen i get where your coming from now. Maybe then a school should just be aschool for all to learn then it would be alot bloody easier then.

I agree!

Me too!

Maybe then a school should just be aschool for all to learn then it would be alot bloody easier then.

Amen to that!

dont fucking send them to a c of e school then
Move? Home Ed?

Have you not read any of the posts explaining that in some areas there is no other realistic fucking choice? (I think that's the first time I've sworn in English on MN )

I think it does depend on the school/child.

I went to a CofE-we had assembly/hymns/prayers-but to me it was just part of school-I never felt as if I was actively participating in/being made to be part of a religion.

Schools will differ in their approach of course. But that doesn't get round the basic fact that it doesn't make sense for a school which includes non-Christian children to have worship of Christ as part of the school day.

And just saying 'well the non-Christians should just bugger off somewhere else then' is both discriminatory and just not a practical option for many families.

Also, some schools will be much more evangelical in their approach than others - it's down to the luck of the draw

"to have worship of Christ as part of the school day. "

But they don´t, do they?

And that´s the OP´s dilemma.

Send to the school & opt out of worship or not.

For my parents, it didn´t matter if I took part in the prayers & believed it -but that´s not the case for the OP.

I think if there really isnt an alternative, then OP should send the children & opt them out if she wants them to be brought up as Hindu.

But worship of Christ IS part of the school day. Yes, you can ask for your child to be opted out, but then you are at the mercy of the school as to how they handle it.

Best case scenario is that the class is split into two groups, one worshipping and one not, and the non-worshipping group takes part in another meaningful activity.

Worst case scenario is that the non-worshipping group are in a small minority (say one or two) and are made to sit in a corridor or similar, and tutted at by the sort of people who think that they 'shouldn't have been sent to that school' in the first place.