...to be considering withdrawing my child from collective worship next year

[Hopstheduck]

First time posting in aibu, please be gentle!

Starting thinking about this because the dts have a church service next week and we dont want them to attend. We are more than happy for them to learn about other religions, visit churches, etc. but feel uncomfortable with the idea of them actively participating.

Next sept they will be starting at a C of E junior school and I am wondering about whether to approach the school regarding religion in the assemblies. I know that on occasion the vicar leads these, and I dont want the dts becoming confused, or being expected to participate in christian acts of worship.

It seems to be uncommon these days to withdraw a child. I'd love to know if anyone else has approached it and how it worked out.

THere's always masses of ignorance on these threads about how fundamentally wrong it is for the only schools in an area to peddle one particular brand of mythological bullshit, predominantly from people who live in seriously whitebread areas and can't compute the idea of there being Muslims, Sikhs, Hindus and Jews who, you know, live nearby and have school-age DC. So it always comes down to 'Christianity is compulsory, stop making a fuss and pretending you don't believe in jeeeezers just to be awkward.'

We´re in Germany-secular!

My children don´t have assembly & I think fondly of the hymn singing-I loved it!

What religion are you OP? not that it matters but I first read it as you are an athiest but then I saw you said "other religions" so I misunderstood. How involved are you with your own religion?

Well then op you are an arse you don't want collective worship but your children go to a CofE school wtf I doubt very much you will be ale to avoid it

Remove them form the school if you don't want the parting because thats pretty much what you will get I suspect you placed them their because of the fab education they provide maybe even lied them in now want to pick out the religious part :(

I have never heard anything so silly in my life

aghhhh had only read the 1st page, sorry! I will now read the thread

Nice reasoned argument from maypole1 there . Have you even read the OP properly, let alone the rest of the thread?

"The OP has a problem with the school, not the other way around."

The OP has a justifiable concern imo, about the fact that her children's local state school has a strongly Christian agenda and her children are not Christians. Hardly unreasonable.

And plenty of CofE schools DO actively (and legally) discriminate against non-Christians and atheists.

I've heard (although not actually experienced this first-hand) that lots of CofE schools in areas where the only option in that CofE school (esp in rural areas) are not particularly CofE iyswim. Eg children don't have to attend Church to go there, they are very welcoming of children of other faiths, there isn't much CofE teaching. Because if they didn't do these things they just wouldn't get many kids due to location.

Op have you discussed your concerns with the school, it may be worth doing so. If they are a good, caring school they should be willing to listen and to consider how they can accomadate your DCs beliefs without excluding them from activities that their peers may be involved in.

Our last JW pupil used to stand at the hall door so he could watch what was going on - so pitiful!
And he knew the words to all the hymns better than some of the others!

If your children are going to be brought up as Hindu I don't understand why you would consider a CofE school. But if they do go there then let them join in and pay lip-service like most of the children - you can make sure they follow Hinduism at home can't you?

Sorry ever one had a bit of a shit day just having a rant sorry op

"There will be nothing worse for your children than making them feel different by withdrawing them from worship"

"As your dc get older you will realise that children hate being 'different' pretty much above all else"

"It's a good way of getting your child to understand that sometimes it's easier just to fit in, especially when it's no skin off their nose"

Comments like this make me so sad - why are we teaching our kids to be afraid of being different? There is absolutely nothing wrong with being different! I was raised to believe that I should be myself and if people didn't like me because I wasn't like them; because I wasn't religious, or didn't have the right trainers, or wasn't into the right games/toys etc then they weren't worth knowing. I was never bothered by being withdrawn from RE/assembly and as I grew older I liked being "different" - I was completely myself, I never felt pulled to listen to the cool music, or dress like the "in" crowd - and equally - I respected other people's right to be who they wanted to be. The opinions of those that blindly follow the "norm" and dislike anyone who doesn't were never that much of a concern to me.

And surely that's the entire point of tolerance? We each get to be ourselves and rub along together respecting and valuing our differences? Shouldn't we be teaching our kids tolerance? Not fear of difference!

Also - it's rather a contradiction this whole "it's good to have kids of other faiths in the school as they all learn about each other's faiths" argument - surely that too is a "difference" and therefore something bad that your kids will want to avoid? So even if you don't withdraw them - they are still seen as "different"? Being the only child in the room that doesn't say "amen" at the end of a prayer still marks them out as different!

Plus, I want to make the point again that religion in schools (in my experience) has not been about educating about other faiths - there may be some token attempts at teaching about "what other people believe" but christianity is promoted as the correct, default religion in many schools. School isn't the only place to learn and if you withdraw your child from RE you can still teach them yourself about the other faiths found in the world, minus the compulsory prayer and worship. (Or they can read about them while sat in the library avoiding the preaching in assembly!)

Hopstheduck I think it's a very sensible idea of yours to actually speak to the DC's about it. I know you wouldn't want to leave the decision solely up to them, but I also know my 8 year old would have an opinion and would want to be heard on an issue like this. I think by the age of 8 they definitely have opinions and thoughts worth listening to! The key is talking, lots of conversations, you, DH, DC's, the school, what the DC's learned today, you & the teacher, the vicar, etc. etc., what they learned at temple, what you and DH believe, etc. etc. Maybe they won't want to be excluded from assembly but will still maintain a solid understanding of their own underlying faith, while still taking part.

I don't think you should take them out of their community by moving them to a different school (even if that were possible). It will be more difficult for your family to balance their faith-learning at school with your beliefs at home - more difficult than for a "plain vanilla" C of E family - or maybe just more time-consuming - but worth it in the end.

I was an atheist governor of a CofE school
DD just did one of the bible readings at her carol service
religion is just stories and poetry
bright kids grow out of it - if you let them learn about it

I never understand why people worry so much about children being involved in collective worship at school. Surely, 'This is what some people believe,' covers it? Going through the motions does not = belief. Are you going to pull them from any carol concerts? There are 1000s of children all over the country who go to eg C of E schools but are Hindu or who go to Catholic schools but don't belive in god.

Do you avoid weddings in case you get accidentally indoctrinated?

My DC go to a CofE school (we are CofE). They pray twice a day, lunchtime and assembly. The Vicar leads assembly once a fortnight. They also learn alot about other religions, not in a 'we are right they are wrong' way, but that 'we believe this, others believe that, neither is wrong'. DS2 (age 5, in reception,) is currently obsessed with Islam. The lsa in his class is Muslim, as are about 40% of the pupils. Almost everyday he will name classmates, and ask me if they are Muslims, (or Muslins as he says) and if they celebrate Eid. IMO they are getting a fantastic rounded religious education, learning about all religions.

So what should those families who are Hindu/Sikh/Zoroastrian/Wiccan do when the only school for 20 miles is peddling Christianity? This is the case in many rural areas: not only is the only school Christian but it's not much cop as a school, either. Do those of you insisting that people should tell their kids they have to just suck up Christianity (all religions are bullshit by the way, Christianity more tiresome than many as so many of its devotees can't leave other people alone), or should they Go Back Where They Came From or something?

My daughter's Hindu friends didn't have any problems attending their very C of E school, neither did her Jewish, Atheist, or Muslim friends (its only the JWs who do as far as I know).

I don't think it is necessarily as simple as telling them that is what some people believe, children are very impressionable at that age. Dt2 come home a few weeks ago insisting incorrectly on a point of maths because he thought his teacher had told him so.

I'm also certain the exposure it has contributed in part to the oldren children's strength of belief. Ds1 came home today chuffed to bits that Father D* sat on his table today, dd was saying about wanting to go to church every Sunday, she usually only goes once a month or so. the school does have very strong links with the church.

very impressionable at that age
absolutely
DD asked me how many times a day I pray to little baby cheeses when she was in year R
by year three she'd seen through the Hokum and stopped worrying about religion as anything other than an explanation for many of the worlds conflicts

CHILLAX
if you are relaxed, they will grow out of it

YABU.

You can't choose a church school and then opt out of the religion. If you chose the church school because it is better academically or seems to fit in with your preferred social demographic then you have to take all that is on offer. I know you say its the nearest school but if my nearest school had an appaling academic record and lots of "oiks" I would happily travel. Are you saying you wouldn't?

If the school isn't right for you, whatever the reason, choose another. If it pisses you off now it will get worse.

I teach in a faith school (but I don't follow this faith). The school is mainly students from that religion, however we also have students from other faiths.
The students who follow a different faith accept that they attend the school and what the school is about (the ethos) as do their parents. My school does have a small prayer that is said each morning and we have special assemblies around certain religious days.

There is at no point within the school/curriculum any mention that this is the only true religion and none of the others are true as that does not fit with the ethos of the faith and therefore anyone suggesting that op's children will be told they are wrong for being Hindu are completely wrong.

None of these students leave school 'assimilated into the school faith' but leave with excellent results, excellent sense of morals and community.

These threads are starting to do my head in.

Poor old OP is (like so many others) stuck between a rock and a hard place.

State education in the UK should be secular. End of story. Then no difficulties with Hindus having to either join in with Christianity or be left out, Jews getting bullied at Catholic schools, people having to start beavering away at church because all the schools in their area are oversubscribed and religious.... It goes on and on and causes no end of trouble.

Sardine
but the flip side of that is the USA where religion is banned in state schools so children learn only about their own faith at home (or are home schooled by religious parents)
resulting in the scary polarisations seen in American society today

I've always said, a good British CofE education is the best recruitment for atheism there is

My DCs attended a secular school in the Netherlands. So far as I saw the Netherlands are not a hot bed of anything. There religion is seen as an essentially private matter (and rightly so IMO).

TalkinPeace , that's an interesting viewpoint, "don't worry, religion is just stories bright children grow out of it ".