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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

...to be considering withdrawing my child from collective worship next year

257 replies

Hopstheduck · 07/12/2011 12:07

First time posting in aibu, please be gentle!

Starting thinking about this because the dts have a church service next week and we dont want them to attend. We are more than happy for them to learn about other religions, visit churches, etc. but feel uncomfortable with the idea of them actively participating.

Next sept they will be starting at a C of E junior school and I am wondering about whether to approach the school regarding religion in the assemblies. I know that on occasion the vicar leads these, and I dont want the dts becoming confused, or being expected to participate in christian acts of worship.

It seems to be uncommon these days to withdraw a child. I'd love to know if anyone else has approached it and how it worked out.

OP posts:

fedupofnamechanging · 07/12/2011 12:22

I can see both sides of this. On the one hand, you don't want your dc being taught a religion as fact, rather than the 'we believe X, other people believe Y or Z' approach.

Otoh, your children may feel isolated form their peers and left out of the fun activities that are part of religious education, like nativities and carol concerts. I probably wouldn't withdraw my dc, but just say at home that people all believe different things.

NinkyNonker · 07/12/2011 12:22

Surely they just bow their heads and don't pray? It isn't like you believe they are going to be going to hell is it.

WynkenBlynkenandNod · 07/12/2011 12:22

DD's at a C of E school, it's our local middle school and serves about 5 first schools (2 are church schools, the rest aren't) It's our catchment school and where all the children go, you might get one in a year who goes somewhere else.

As it's attached to the church they quite often go and they have assembly each day which I assume is quite religious - I've heard her and friends take the mickey out of the Head's prayers etc when they are up in her room . Personally there's no way I would withdraw them. DD doesn't believe in God, just goes along with things. She'd be mortified to not go to assembly. You'll find that they come across religion in lots of places like Cubs and Brownies. DS kicked off about having to say serve God or whatever in Beavers but decided he would just cross his fingers or something. I am resolutely laid back about it all, only I slightly hit the roof was when DD learned about Creation before Evolution in her non Church school.

Original poster

Hopstheduck · 07/12/2011 12:23

Ecolady - I'm beginning to wonder now, tbh!

It's not actually set in stone yet they have to go there. It's just their catchment, and since ds1 is already there they would def get places there.

jsut to avoid confusion, ds1 is christian. the dts aren't.

OP posts:

WorraLiberty · 07/12/2011 12:23

I want them to go to their catchment school because it is within walking distance, it is where their friends are going, it is a good school, and ds1 goes there! Unfortunately it is COFE. It would be far better if all state schools were secular imo, but we're stuck with it

So it's a decision you've made to suit you and yours?

Better suck it up then and be grateful they're willing to accomodate your kids.

Why does the other school not accept admissions in year 3??

Original poster

Hopstheduck · 07/12/2011 12:23

thank you Karma! You've summed it up perfectly.

OP posts:

hackmum · 07/12/2011 12:24

mumblechum is right. You often don't have a choice of school.

Personally I think the OP is stuck with it. Everyone has the right to remove their children from school assembly, but do you really want to? It's a choice between sticking up for your principles (which will be isolating for your kids) or saying, OK, we don't believe in this, but we're going to put up with it. You just have to make sure you have sensible conversations about it at home: this is what people who run your school believe, but it's not what we believe. And lots of other people don't believe it either.

Original poster

Hopstheduck · 07/12/2011 12:24

wooralibery, the cofe is a 7-11 school, the other is a 4-11 school, so year 3 is full of children who are already in their system. We would have to hope for a mid term transfer at best.

OP posts:

WorraLiberty · 07/12/2011 12:24

jsut to avoid confusion, ds1 is christian. the dts aren't

No, that's just confused me even more.

Are you worried your twins are going to catch the same sort of Christian germs your DS1 caught or something?

GnomeDePlume · 07/12/2011 12:25

I'm a devout atheist and DCs raised in a secular environment. I considered withdrawing DCs from religious activities within school (not CofE just a very religious head) but decided that I was happy(ish) for them to attend things so long as they didnt have to participate if they didnt want to. This meant that they were under no obligation (from me) to bow their heads during prayer, sing hymns etc.

If they had got stick from the school about this then I would have had no qualms about withdrawing them.

I guess it depends on whether you had a genuine choice about school your DCs attend or not. I agree in many villages and small towns there is no choice as LEA have outsourced their responsibility to CofE.

Original poster

Hopstheduck · 07/12/2011 12:25

i did actually ask them if they wanted to go there too, so not just my decision netiher!

OP posts:

JinglePosyPerkin · 07/12/2011 12:26

OK. Firstly, if you do not want your children to take part in such things DO NOT send them to a church school as there will be a lot of activites over the years which they will miss out on.

Secondly, myself, my brother & both sisters went to a C of E primary school. The vicar gave assembly every Friday, we went to church several times a year for various things & our Christmas nativity play was always the actual nativity (as opposed to "An Alien Christmas" currently being performed by DS2). Not one of us is in the slightest bit religious now. I wouldn't say I'm an atheist as such but I'm pretty close. My brother & one sister are most decidedly atheist. In short, participating in a vicar led assembly aged 4 does not screw you up for life .

HTH x

DeliaSucksStollen · 07/12/2011 12:26

I think it's what you present them with a home that matters. Whether you withdraw the or not is just a gesture, to some degree. They will make up their own minds.

ballstoit · 07/12/2011 12:27

If your DS1 goes there why are you not considering removing him from collective worship this year, if it means that much to you

I went to CofE primary school. I can clearly remember the 3 Jehovahs Witness children who didn't come into assembly, they always had to sit in the corridor for the time we were in there and looked bored out of their minds. I can't remember paying any attention to prayers or being influenced to be religious.

TBH I was too busy being cross about having to sit next to a boy until I was about 9, and then being worried about which boy I sat next to for the last couple of years

hackmum · 07/12/2011 12:29

Becaroodolf: "YABVU -send them to a nice atheist school then!"

Would that there were such a thing! Sadly, atheist schools are not permitted in the UK. Imagine it, if there were schools that actually said to children "There is no God. It's all a pile of nonsense." Just think how all those people currently being so sanctimonious about "You shouldn't send your child to the local C of E school if you don't believe in it" would react if all their nearest schools were actively teaching atheism. Imagine how they would whine and squeal, the little hypocrites.

Takver · 07/12/2011 12:29

To those who say 'don't go to a CofE school', or assume that people go there for the quality of education, its not as simple as that. Often in rural areas all the local schools are CofE. And you certainly wouldn't get council transport to a non-religious school, so if you don't drive / can't afford the petrol you really do have no option.

Also, having said that, dd's community primary (ie NOT church school) is far more religious than the CofE primary that I went to. So CofE status isn't necessarily a good marker of religious content, unlike for example a Catholic school.

I personally wouldn't be overly bothered about the religious content of lessons, assemblies etc. As someone pointed out very sensibly on one of these threads before, the fact that all schools are obliged to have Christian content really doesn't appear to have made us a religiously observant nation (I believe the last Church attendance survey showed regular attendance at church standing at around 7%, with an average age of 49). If anything, I think that there may be an 'immunising effect' from the tedious praying etc in lessons, and the fact that parents are stimulated to discuss religion/s with their children from an early age.

WorraLiberty · 07/12/2011 12:30

So I take it you would also withdraw them from any Christmas parties/Christmas concerts/plays and refuse to allow them to accept any Christmas presents from the school if say they had a visit from Santa?

AKissIsNotAContract · 07/12/2011 12:30

If your children are intelligent they will form their own opinions regardless of what the school tells them. I went to a very religious convent school and knew I was atheist from an early age. All that indoctrination doesn't work. I would just sit there while prayers were said. I never participated and the nuns couldn't force me.

Are you more worried that your kids might start believing? I can understand that as I'd find it very hard if my child grew up religious but sheltering them from religion won't necessarily prevent that.

Original poster

Hopstheduck · 07/12/2011 12:30

worraliberty - older two children are from prev marriage. I was raised christian. They were allowed to make their own decisions. The school probably did play a part in that too. They choose to go to boys/girls brigade and church. I fully support that.

Twins are half Indian, and so born Hindu.

OP posts:

ballstoit · 07/12/2011 12:31

Okay, cross posts about DS1...I presume he has a different Dad to the DTs?

In which case I think send them to the same school and let them go into assembly...it will be more traumatic to deal with the other kids questioning why their brother does and they don't (and vice versa) than to have to sit through the vicar dronin on a few times a term.

GnomeDePlume · 07/12/2011 12:32

IME for most people Christmas has naff all to do with Christianity. It is a secular mid winter celebration with religious overtones only if you care to apply them.

LimburgseVlaai · 07/12/2011 12:33

My children go to a CofE school with daily worship etc, which we chose because it was the nearest, it had the best reputation, and it had the friendliest feel. I am not a believer (brought up RC) but it doesn't bother me.

Our 4yo is now talking about god a lot - but I tend to answer her questions with "Some people believe that god is/does such and such".

Our 9yo has decided that god is like magic, so he can't exist because magic isn't real (just like Harry Potter isn't real), and she doesn't believe in god. She finds the whole religion thing boring but puts up with it.

So Hopstheduck, don't worry about it too much - they'll sort it out in their own minds.

Original poster

Hopstheduck · 07/12/2011 12:33

we made the decision to raise them Hindu and it is something I feel strongly about. I wouldn't impose that on my older two, because I dont feel it would be right to do so. They weren't born into that culture, they can make their own choices.

I do worry that the school may make them question their beliefs because I can see how it reinforced my older twos'.

OP posts:

hackmum · 07/12/2011 12:33

worraliberty: "So I take it you would also withdraw them from any Christmas parties/Christmas concerts/plays and refuse to allow them to accept any Christmas presents from the school if say they had a visit from Santa?"

Oh yes, that well-known Biblical figure Santa. You sound really confused.

WorraLiberty · 07/12/2011 12:33

Twins are half Indian, and so born Hindu

No-one is 'born Hindu'. If your twins are practicing Hindus because that's what you're forcing upon them wanting them to be...don't you think you should have mentioned this before you got 46 posts into the thread?

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