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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

...to be considering withdrawing my child from collective worship next year

257 replies

Hopstheduck · 07/12/2011 12:07

First time posting in aibu, please be gentle! Grin

Starting thinking about this because the dts have a church service next week and we dont want them to attend. We are more than happy for them to learn about other religions, visit churches, etc. but feel uncomfortable with the idea of them actively participating.

Next sept they will be starting at a C of E junior school and I am wondering about whether to approach the school regarding religion in the assemblies. I know that on occasion the vicar leads these, and I dont want the dts becoming confused, or being expected to participate in christian acts of worship.

It seems to be uncommon these days to withdraw a child. I'd love to know if anyone else has approached it and how it worked out.

OP posts:
iphonedrone · 08/12/2011 12:05

I haven't read the whole thread but just wanted to add that we withdraw our children from collective worship and assemblies which the local vicar takes.

We sent our children to a non church school, precisely because we don't agree with state sponsored religion.

They have never been 'embarrassed' about it and they aren't the only ones as there are also some JW and Plymouth Brethren children at the school who also withdraw. To be honest they have much more fun in the classroom playing games, drawing or watching a film than they do sat on the floor in assembly. Since we have withdrawn our children, a few other atheist families have come forward and taken their children out too.

The practicing of religion in school is horribly divisive and has no place in a modern school system.

CarefullyAirbrushedPotato · 08/12/2011 12:08

PaintchartHeaven
c) Would it be a desirable thing to segregate every child in the country into schools according to their belief systems? I don't think so.
exactly- we're not quite at the same level as the French yet (thank goodness!)

Hopstheduck
I think for me the choice would have a great deal to do with the priest. I've worked in C of E schools where they had assemblies about sharing, charity, Mother Theresa's good works etc, which I have no problem with (I'm not religious). However there was one priest I came across who made my teeth itch and my blood boil, he once told my infants that 'they had to be sorry for who they were so that god would forgive them'- now that shit I object to, and if anyone ever says anything like that to my daughter I will be forced to make them eat their own eyeballs a firmly worded complaint

iphonedrone · 08/12/2011 12:11

Also should add that we asked both of them if they wanted to withdraw and made them attend for a few weeks before they made their minds up.

They were bored and moaned that the vicar just talked about 'god' although DS did tell me that Jesus came to assembly once (it turned out to be a male vicar).

If they ever wanted to go back again they could, most of their friends are jealous that they don't get to opt out!

PaintchartHeaven · 08/12/2011 12:23

Also - another aspect of this opting out business - if a family has been put in the invidious position of having to 'exaggerate' their Christian beliefs in order to get their child into their nearest state school (ie one which actively discriminates against non-church-goers), then opting out isn't really going to be an option for them either. The church has them over a barrel, so to speak.

PaintchartHeaven · 08/12/2011 12:26

lol at Jesus turning up in assembly. Now THAT would be worth attending a religious assembly for!

SardineQueen · 08/12/2011 13:41

The difficulty with the opt-out is that in many faith schools the religion is completely interwoven into the whole fabric of the school - the songs sung, the festivals celebrated, the assemblies and even the lessons themselves.

So if the school actually enforced a real opt-out it would mean that the child was excluded from all the exciting events going on, all assemblies, and many lessons as well.

insertcleverusernamehere · 08/12/2011 15:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SardineQueen · 08/12/2011 15:04

What does TIC mean?

insertcleverusernamehere · 08/12/2011 15:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PaintchartHeaven · 08/12/2011 15:42

I think the point is that it is discriminatory for a state school to have one religious agenda running through the whole curriculum and school day.

For this reason I don't think 'well send them to a Hindu school then' is any sort of a solution.

It is a waste of public money to try and provide schools for separate religions, since there will never be an exact match of places and demand.

It is also divisive and ethically questionable imo.

insertcleverusernamehere · 08/12/2011 16:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TalkinPeace2 · 08/12/2011 16:24

in an ideal world all schools should have RE as part of the curriculum - to ensure that all children learn about the whole world
but there should be NO worship of any denomination

PaintchartHeaven · 08/12/2011 16:26

insertcleverusername - not sure I understand your point, do you mean that as there aren't many Hindu schools then that must mean that all Hindus are happy to attend Christian schools?

insertcleverusernamehere · 08/12/2011 17:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PaintchartHeaven · 08/12/2011 17:25

That would seem to me to be quite a big assumption, but as I can't speak for all - or in fact, any - Hindus in the UK, I can't really comment.

working9while5 · 08/12/2011 17:33

My God! This thread is nuts!

I once did a placement in Bradford. The C of E school I was observing children in was 99% Muslim. Watching all these little kids talking about Jesus and the apostles and how they should be "fishers of men", bringing people to the One True Way and The Light was... well... weird.

And no, to all of you screaming bloody murder, there were no local Muslim primaries. All of the schools in the area which was predominantly Muslim were C of E or Catholic. The parents clearly "sucked it up"... but is it right?

I am all for kiddos learning about other cultures and religions but the rhetoric I saw in that school was very clearly monotheistic "our way or the highway".

As for calling people's religious choices bizarre and unsupportable, how very Christian Xmas Hmm

Original poster
Hopstheduck · 08/12/2011 17:55

Not sure about that assumption, insertcleverusernamehere. The Hindu school that has opened has been very popular and there is talk of a secondary opening. There is one Hindu private school I know of that is also subscribed.

There are probably many people who would love an education at a faith based school of their own faith, but it isn't that simple. Personally I still would prefer a secular education that taught about all faiths.

OP posts:
Original poster
Hopstheduck · 08/12/2011 17:56

over subscribed, I can't type today!

OP posts:
SardineQueen · 08/12/2011 18:02

Are there "many" muslim state schools?

There certainly aren't "many" Jewish state schools outside of london esp north london AFAIK

Why do you think there are "many" of these schools?

SardineQueen · 08/12/2011 18:03

The answer is less religious schools, not more!

TalkinPeace2 · 08/12/2011 18:05

TOTALLY agree with Sardine

state funded non Christian religious schools can probably be counted on the fingers of both hands

SardineQueen · 08/12/2011 18:05

Oh look

"England

English education includes many schools linked to the Church of England, which controls governance and admittance while the funding comes from the state. At voluntary-aided schools, the Church pays for 10% of projects; at voluntary-controlled schools, the Church contributes only the building itself.[5] The Church sets the ethos of the schools and influences selection of pupils; at voluntary aided schools, usually half or more of the school's places are reserved for "actively involved" members of the Church determined by local clergy.[5] These form a large proportion of the 6,955 Christian faith schools in England. The Roman Catholic church also maintains schools. In addition, there are 7 Muslim,[6] 36 Jewish, 2 Sikh and 1 Hindu[6] faith schools. Faith schools follow the same national curriculum as state schools, with the exception of religious studies, where they are free to limit this to their own beliefs.
About one third of the 20,000 state funded schools in England are faith schools.[7] Some of these have converted to Academy status, which means they can set pay and conditions for staff, and no longer have to follow the national curriculum.[7]"

From wiki

So 7000 state schools for christians, 36 for jews and 7 for muslims. Hardly "many", is it [eye roll]

TalkinPeace2 · 08/12/2011 18:10

Faith schools follow the same national curriculum as state schools, with the exception of religious studies, where they are free to limit this to their own beliefs
and prejudices and sexist attitudes

SardineQueen · 08/12/2011 18:16

And let's not forget that the new Free Schools do not have to follow the national curriculum at all and so that will give further leeway to more fundamentalist organisations setting schools up

PaintchartHeaven · 08/12/2011 18:57

SardineQueen - that whole Free School thing is so depressing, just can't quite believe it's actually happening.