Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

...to be considering withdrawing my child from collective worship next year

257 replies

Hopstheduck · 07/12/2011 12:07

First time posting in aibu, please be gentle! Grin

Starting thinking about this because the dts have a church service next week and we dont want them to attend. We are more than happy for them to learn about other religions, visit churches, etc. but feel uncomfortable with the idea of them actively participating.

Next sept they will be starting at a C of E junior school and I am wondering about whether to approach the school regarding religion in the assemblies. I know that on occasion the vicar leads these, and I dont want the dts becoming confused, or being expected to participate in christian acts of worship.

It seems to be uncommon these days to withdraw a child. I'd love to know if anyone else has approached it and how it worked out.

OP posts:
QuintessentiallyFestive · 07/12/2011 13:10

I have honestly never met a Christian who says others believes are wrong.

exexpat · 07/12/2011 13:13

Quint - unfortunately, I've met plenty of Christians who are very happy to explain that everyone else is wrong and will go straight to hell. Mostly not CofE, but some.

WorraLiberty · 07/12/2011 13:15

but Christians don't and will tell others that their beliefs are wrong

What a load of bollocks. So all they're all the same then these Christians?

DiscoDaisy · 07/12/2011 13:15

My children attend a non selective C of E school as religious schools are all we have for a 12 mile radius.
I have taken them out of collective worship and they are not the only ones who don't go into assemblies.
When the school have a church service they just go in later when the school is back from the church (all church services are in the morning).
I would love to not send them to a religious school but we only have a choice out of 1 catholic school or 5 CofE schools.

worzelswife · 07/12/2011 13:15

I'm also unfortunately met many Christians who say that others' beliefs are wrong. And like exexpat that everyone one else is destined straight for hell.

Takver · 07/12/2011 13:15

Apologies, slightly wrong figures there. The Evangelical Alliance (here) give figures from the last English Church Census showing that regular churchgoers amount to 6.3 % of the population.

Equally, as I've said above, the religious component of state education doesn't bother me personally, as it clearly isn't turning us into a religious nation. But I can see why it would be annoying if you were of another faith.

aldiwhore · 07/12/2011 13:16

I see where you're coming from OP, there really is very little choice.

But speaking as an adult who attended CofE schools, and went to Sunday School and a Christian youth club I can vouch for the fact that it will not damage them AT ALL, being a practicing agnostic myself.

Yes, a young age is an impressionable one, and yes there may be times when you have discussions regarding faith... it is also though an age where you don't decide life long beliefs either and in my opinion, the biggest messages, the ones that stick are the moral stances that I probably share with many religions. Love, peace, respect etc.,

My sons' both attend the only school for miles and it has strong ties with the local church, there is collective worship and the RE element is 'usually' Christian praise... although I do believe state schools should not be associated with any religion and should teach about as many as possible, I do not believe the current system is damaging at all.

My eldest son and I have many theological chats, he asks if God exists, I ask him if he believes, he asks if Santa exists, again I ask him if he believes. The resolution to our talks is usually that different people believe different thing, and if YOU believe then its real enough. He is mad about science and we've discussed things like the Big Bang Theory versus Creationalism, HIS conclusion is that its 'a way of understanding why we are and how we are' that is neither right or wrong, or at least, doesn't matter as we don't know 100% either way.

He asked if we could say grace before a meal, I said we don't do that in our house, but if he wishes to 'give thanks' he can do - so we have our own non Christian grace of giving thanks... for me, its lovely that his Christian influence has made him consider what he eats, his life, his existence, and for that I see it as a good thing, rather than a bad one. I'd say similar if his school had many Muslims in it, or Jews, or pagans etc.,

Its easy to over think this issue, but really, as our children grow they will become more aware of their own beliefs that will possibly differ from our own, or school's. My job as parent is to talk with my child, answer his questions, tell him my own opinion and give him information to find out more.

Sirzy · 07/12/2011 13:19

Most christians are more than accepting of others beliefs. If you have a problem with beliefs of christians then again why send them to a C of E school? Makes no sense.

Every religion has some people who will tell others what they believe is wrong and Hindus are no different in this respect!

Original poster
Hopstheduck · 07/12/2011 13:19

'but Christians don't and will tell others that their beliefs are wrong'

maybe not all individuals, but there is plenty in the bible about the 'poison' of other religions, and I've known plenty of Christians who preach it!

OP posts:
Sirzy · 07/12/2011 13:20

To be Christian doesn't mean you have to attend Church every week, it is more than possible to be a Christian without having to go to Church weekly!

WilsonFrickett · 07/12/2011 13:20

I think we're probably lucky in Scotland that schools are either non-denominational (although will still teach a bit of Christianity and have the odd church service) or Catholic and you have to actively choose to attend a Catholic school and I do hear what people have said about lack of choice but if you don't want your children to go to a faith school because you are raising them as active members of a completely different faith - then you have to find an alternative school. Much as that may be a PITA.

Tmesis · 07/12/2011 13:20

I always love how on these threads everyone piles in and says "Don't send them to a CoE school if you aren't happy with the school actively promoting the CoE".

I grew up in a rural area. My nearest school was CoE. The next nearest school was CoE. The third nearest school was CoE. The fourth nearest school was CoE. By my vague reckoning now you'd probably have needed to go for about the twelfth or thirteenth school to find one that wasn't CoE, and that was Roman Catholic. Vast swathes of the country do not have any meaningful choice because the only schooling options provided to them by the state system are CoE.

OP hasn't said that she doesn't want her DTs to avoid any mention of Christianity or Christmas or anything faintly Christian. She just doesn't want her practising Hindu DCs taught as fact that their religion is wrong and another religion is true, or pressurised to pray to a God they don't believe in. And she's in a position where all of the local schools that take Y3 transfers are CoE and therefore likely to do that.

OP, I doubt the school will mind at all if practising Hindu children are withdrawn from collective Christian worship. I don't know to what extent you can specify what you are happy for them to do and what you would want them withdrawn from, but you could discuss that with the school,

Ihavewelliesbutitssunny · 07/12/2011 13:23

It does sound quite complicated. As a Christian I do thing that the lack of choice for non-Christian families is not always fair. In your case though if you feel so strongly about it and are bringing up your children as Hindu then perhaps you should consider the half hour car ride or wait for a mid term gap in the primary school.

WilsonFrickett · 07/12/2011 13:23

X-post Time but if it is that important to the OP then she does have choices. Move house, for example. Get up earlier and drive the DCs to the nearest non-dom school. I know neither of these are ideal but nor is sending their non-Christian children to a Christian school (in the OP's view).

Tmesis · 07/12/2011 13:25

(and for the avoidance of doubt, if you are applying to your twelfth or thirteenth nearest school (or fifteenth or twentieth or whatever the nearest actually secular school was) you will not get in. Because it's your twelfth or thirteenth nearest school and the state admissions system doesn't recognise your lack of Christian faith as a good reason for not attending the nearer Christian schools)

Original poster
Hopstheduck · 07/12/2011 13:25

thank you aldiwhore. I know where you are coming from, because it sounds like your upbringing was very similar to mine!

I'd be so much happier if the school wasn't so forceful with it's beliefs! I'm certain that dd and ds1's strength of belief has mainly been through school. I don't share their beliefs but I do hope that it might give them decent morals - which I think it mostly what I got from it.

OP posts:
DiscoDaisy · 07/12/2011 13:26

WilsonFrickett Not everybody can afford to move house and getting into the nearest non-dom school is not always an option if it's as far away as our nearest non-dom school.

Original poster
Hopstheduck · 07/12/2011 13:26

the half hour journey is NOT an option, because I would have to get ds1 to the cofe school at the same time

OP posts:
Hardgoing · 07/12/2011 13:27

If you read the OP's list of local schools, half are faith schools and half are not, although some of these may not have entry in Year 3.

If your DH is so concerned about the overtness of the Christian religion in a C of E school (and my experience is that it is more overt), then why don't you phone up the admissions officer for the local borough and explain the dilemma. See what other places are left in your local area. I would think with six non-religious schools, there may be a place in one of them (even if they don't have official entry at Year 3, some may have spare places).

If none of them do, at least you know this is the only school available and will feel less bad about withdrawing them from lessons. Sending them to the local school and then moaning about the CofEness of it is not on unless it really is your only option.

WorraLiberty · 07/12/2011 13:31

I'd be so much happier if the school wasn't so forceful with it's beliefs!

Indeed how dare they....

Sirzy · 07/12/2011 13:31

So its good enough for your son but not for the others?

This gets more and more confusing for us so mind boggles what it must be for the children?

Of course a C of E school is going to push C of E beliefs. Why wouldn't it?

phlossie · 07/12/2011 13:31

OP - I thought about this last year - I'm a devout atheist. But it was a knee-jerk reaction, and I have since relaxed about it. Funnily enough, my DCs will be starting a CofE school (because it's in the village we're moving to). This is what I think:

  1. If Christianity/Bible stories are good for anything it's for teaching children morals and principles.
  1. Children find it hard to be picked out for being different.

I do have to keep telling myself all this with gritted teeth! And I balance it by discussing beliefs at home.

I completely agree that apart from specific faith schools, all schools should be secular. And for every Christian speaker or church visit, there should be Jewish, Hindi, Muslim, Sikh, atheist speakers too and visits to temples, synagogues etc. That would reflect the true diversity of British culture - especially in cities.

GypsyMoth · 07/12/2011 13:31

How old is ds1? Can't he walk in on his own?

If you want to pick and choose the parts if the school day you want, why don't you home educate? Or get your DH to, as this seems to be him doing the pushing

WilsonFrickett · 07/12/2011 13:33

Well then her 'only' option is a CofE school and I think she's going to have to suck it up and get on with it then! However 'forceful' they may be in their beliefs. In their religious school... Hmm

exexpat · 07/12/2011 13:34

But even if she finds a non-church school to send them to, they will still have Christian assemblies, because that is the law in this country. So the issue about whether to withdraw them from assemblies still applies.

And fwiw, some supposedly non-church primaries around here take the 'daily act of collective worship of a broadly Christian nature' very seriously, and are more evangelical than the CofE ones. It all seems to depend on the head, so can change at any time.