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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

...to be considering withdrawing my child from collective worship next year

257 replies

Hopstheduck · 07/12/2011 12:07

First time posting in aibu, please be gentle! Grin

Starting thinking about this because the dts have a church service next week and we dont want them to attend. We are more than happy for them to learn about other religions, visit churches, etc. but feel uncomfortable with the idea of them actively participating.

Next sept they will be starting at a C of E junior school and I am wondering about whether to approach the school regarding religion in the assemblies. I know that on occasion the vicar leads these, and I dont want the dts becoming confused, or being expected to participate in christian acts of worship.

It seems to be uncommon these days to withdraw a child. I'd love to know if anyone else has approached it and how it worked out.

OP posts:
AKMD · 07/12/2011 12:34

WHy does learning about morals have to involve religion, though?

Morals and social conscience come from religion. If civilisation didn't have religion, at least to start off with, then it would be every man for himself today.

cantspel · 07/12/2011 12:34

what does the hindu father think?

Surely if he is bring them up as hindu then the final decision has to come from him.

Original poster
Hopstheduck · 07/12/2011 12:35

gnomedeplume, I agree, and I dont mind them learned about the christian story behind it neither. ds1 played joseph in the nativity!

I just don't want them pushed into actively worshipping in a christian manner, and being told it is the only truth.

OP posts:
exexpat · 07/12/2011 12:35

I agree that you don't always have a choice about a religious school - most of the primary schools in my area are CofE or Catholic; nearly all the schools, both CofE or non-denominational, in this city are oversubscribed, so you basically either put down your closest school, or put down one you have no chance of getting in to so are allocated a failing school three or four miles away. The CofE ones are mostly voluntary controlled rather than voluntary aided, which means admission is through the local authority and you don't have to claim to be religious.

In any case, even in non-church schools, the law is that every school has to have a daily act of collective worship of a broadly Christian nature, so there is very little difference between what goes on in assembly in a church school and a non-church one.

FWIW, I'm an atheist whose children (for reasons given above) spent several years at a CofE primary and I did not withdraw them from assemblies. Most of the assemblies were fairly wishy-washy secular affairs anyway (the head wasn't particularly Christian, as far as I am aware), but once a week they had the local children's minister in to do a proper bible-based assembly.

The minister was the kind of happy-clappy, lets-all-sing-about-Jesus type who wanted to make everything relevant so did assemblies using stuff from High School Musical to illustrate biblical points. She was so dire that my two DCs, who had previously been wavering about whether they believed in god or not, immediately decided that it was all a load of laughable nonsense.

So, I wouldn't necessarily worry about your DCs being converted. I think the best thing is to let them go to the assemblies, but talk about stuff at home, and if they come back spouting religious things they have been taught as fact, take time to point out that lots of people believe lots of different things etc.

WorraLiberty · 07/12/2011 12:35

hackmum 'Santa' is a product of Christmas....Christmas being the birth of that well known Biblical figure Jesus Christ.

OrmIrian · 07/12/2011 12:35

It's C of E. Fairly tame. The worst it will help them do is develop an ability to cope with boredom, and the embarrassment of watching MC English people trying to be spontaneous and enthusiastic. And they will learn how to whisper very quietly.

Oh and IME (mostly a few decades ago I must admit) the last thing most people in a church do is " participate in christian acts of worship". They tend to sit there, listening to the music and thinking about what to cook for dinner.

I really wouldn't worry. Polite hypocrisy is an undervalued quality Grin

And if this really was such a major issue for you you should have chosen a different school. Most people just muddle along.

YuleingFanjo · 07/12/2011 12:37

YANBU.

QuintessentiallyFestive · 07/12/2011 12:37

I am sorry, but you are raising your children in the uk, and even if you are raising them hindu, because their dad is hindu and you are in this culture also, you are doing your children a great disservice by segregating them from their community like this. It is up to your husband to instill the hindu aspect of things to them, and up to you both to ensure that they understand and respect that people believe different things.

If you really felt strongly about it, you would send your children to the school further away. But that would conflict with you wanting them to play with their local friends!

WorraLiberty · 07/12/2011 12:37

I just don't want them pushed into actively worshipping in a christian manner, and being told it is the only truth

And Hindus don't believe their religion is the only truth? Confused

OldGreyWassailTest · 07/12/2011 12:37

For God's sake - this is just ridiculous. Choose another school or suck it up! They're not ONLY taught in schools, you know - teaching should carry on at home as well. Take some responsibility FFS.

QuintessentiallyFestive · 07/12/2011 12:37

They dont have to actively worship, not if you educate them what to do and what not to do.

Original poster
Hopstheduck · 07/12/2011 12:38

worraliberty, that is your opinion, by way of most indian beliefs you are born hindu, it is ingrained into the whole culture. Same as with the jewish religion. And I couldn't possibly get the whole back story into the OP without writing an essay.

Regarding dh - the whole discussion raised because they have a church visit next week. He objects to them praying in church. Then we got onto the cofe discussion and he is concerned about the amount of participation that might be required because it is a cofe school. When he went into school he did attend, but it was minimal amount.

OP posts:
Takver · 07/12/2011 12:39

OldGreyWassailTest I'm guessing you live in a city. As pointed out very frequently, for most of us in the UK there IS no meaningful choice of primary school

WorraLiberty · 07/12/2011 12:40

And I couldn't possibly get the whole back story into the OP without writing an essay

Fuck me, all you had to add was 'Oh and by the way my twins are Hindu'

This thread's got more drips than a leaking tap Hmm

QuintessentiallyFestive · 07/12/2011 12:41

Send them to a different school. It is your choice to bring them up hindu, so you have to just go the whole hog and follow through your convictions, EVEN if that means an inconvenient journey for you in the morning. It is ridiculous to send your children to a faith school and insist your children dont take part in the faith aspect and that the school must respect you childrens hindu faith... It beggars belief that you even think this is ok.

Will they need different meals?

LimburgseVlaai · 07/12/2011 12:43

I just don't want them pushed into actively worshipping in a christian manner, and being told it is the only truth

They won't be told it is the only truth, unless they go to a particularly virulent school (which CofE ones don't tend to be - CofE is still the majority religion in this country which means they can be relaxed about this kind of stuff).

At the DCs school they learn about different religions as part of RE - and this is way out in the sticks in an overwhelmingly white English village. I would imagine that in more multi-cultural settings there will be even more effort made to cover other religions.

QuintessentiallyFestive · 07/12/2011 12:45

My sons go to an RC primary, and have spent the automn learning about Judaism.

aquashiv · 07/12/2011 12:45

Change school and free up a space for a child who wants to attend. Simples!

GnomeDePlume · 07/12/2011 12:45

IMO state education should be secular but that is never going to happen. Instead DH and I have happily countered any religious truths with alternative view points. DCs are now at secondary and show no religious leanings whatsoever.

BTW I love OrmIrian's comment about polite hypocrisy being an underrated quality - that's class!

OldGreyWassailTest · 07/12/2011 12:45

No, actually Takver - I live in the middle of nowhere in deep in darkest Devon! When will people realise that CofE if this country's main religion, and if you are of another faith then either accommodate your children's learning to that or Home Educate. You can't have it both ways no matter how hard you try.

Lisatheonewhoeatsdrytoast · 07/12/2011 12:45

I live in scotland and as scottish so was schooled here, we have either RC schools, or non-denominational ones, nothing else. I went to the Local Authority School /ND and we still had a visit once a month from the local church of scotland minister and did services at the church at christmas and what not, nothing else howeve, we had many muslims, atheists and what not, but we just all went regardless.

I am christian, but my husband is most certainly atheist and i'm not fussed what DS will learn at school, he'll make his own choices anyway, but from what you all descirbe about COFE schools, i think my husband would be uncomfortable with it, so yanbu. Xmas Confused

ExquisiteChristmasCake · 07/12/2011 12:47

Hops, if you don't like religion don't send your child to a faith school. Instead you could get up half an hour earlier and drive to the other school. I presume your dc don't celebrate Christmas or Easter either?

GnomeDePlume · 07/12/2011 12:48

Just because they attend a religious ceremony doesnt mean they have to participate. Talk to them about what the ceremony is and what it means to other people.

FFSEnid · 07/12/2011 12:49

Dcs school is 4-11 and there are always a few dcs joining in Y3. Infant class size rules don't apply to juniors.

ExquisiteChristmasCake · 07/12/2011 12:49

Just read the Hindi comment. Sorry my iPhone flipped the conversation Blush