to think that for some obese people, its not their fault, and surgery is a really good option?

[NotMyBigFatFault]

I weigh 17 and a half stone. I am 5 foot 3. Size 22.

I am hungry most the time. I wake up with a hunger, I have breakfast, cereal, or toast, or something else if I am on a proper "diet" (done them all - Atkins, Lighterlife, Slimming World, Weight Watchers, Cambridge, calorie counting, etc). By 9am I am hungry again. By 11am I am ready for lunch. By 1pm I am ready for more. I could go on but my obesity is not driven, in my opinion by greed (which would be eating way beyond which one is hungry) but by hunger. Genuine hunger for perfectly normal, even healthy food.

I know this is not the case with all obese people. But for quite a few it is.

I remember begging my Nanny to commence lunch proceedings at 11am one day. I was absolutely ravenous. I just wanted that sandwich so much. I could; have eaten 10 of them. I was 4 years old and had no idea what comfort eating was - I knew what tummy rumbles were, though.

My dad has never felt properly full. He stops eating, because he knows he'll get really really big if he doesn't, but he always has a knawing desire to eat. He exercises plenty of self control, which is why he is about 18 stone, not 27 stone, or 32 stone, or 36 stone and dead.

My mother has been on the dieting merry-go-round all her life (well, since she was 9). She has always been hungry. She doesn't actually eat particularly large portions, she's a bit of a picker, because she feels nauseous if she gets properly hungry due to medication she is on, but I can put way more away than her, though I try not to, as I am always on a diet. Being on a diet most the time and only breaking it when I can't stand it anymore is what keeps me at 17 and a half stone. I'd weigh more if I didn't exercise this level of self control. Its driven by fear for my health and vanity.

I recently sought weight loss surgery, looked at options, decided on either a Gastric Bypass or Sleeve Gastronectomy (gastric sleeve), and saw an eminent consultant, who approved me for surgery. The surgery will be funded privately by myself. We decided on the sleeve. The procedure cuts away the fundus part of the stomach, reducing your stomach size to 25% of what it was, but most importantly, removes the part of the stomach which is responsible for secreting Ghrelin , reducing that knawing, all consuming and unrelenting hunger that makes some obese people, well, obese. Its keyhole surgery under general anaesthetic.

I go on bike rides, walks, I do trampolining, dancing, the gym, enjoy the great outdoors, and running about with my kids. I am reasonably fit considering my size.

AIBU to think that obesity is not all about "greed", lack of self-denial (we are talking a lifetime, by the way, not a few weeks), "junk food", or "lack of exercise"? Is there anyone out there who thinks, actually, this is not my fault ?

...and exercise. In my experience, most people underestimate the amount of exercise they actually need to do to maintain their weight (and keep their heart and lungs healthy, more to the point!) We need to be exercising vigorously (getting really out of breath and red in the face) for about 2 hours a week or more. Need to combine CV and weights/resistance exercise because building muscle speeds metabolism.

Through the many hospital appointments I gained some lovely friends who also had surgery, and the amount of depression linked to them overeating was in the majority. They were having counselling along with the surgery, plus of course the pre and post surgery care.

The fatter one gets the more depressed you get, and to get yourself out of this sinking hole seems insurmountable, and to have someone bother enough to reach their hand out to you to help you out of it is huge. The dirty looks, nasty assumptions, and the 'just exercise more and eat less' comments actually don't do much, fatties KNOW this. This is old news. It's far more complex than that often. After an amazing surgical kickstart, and sympathetic guidance, one is able to include exercise at the level needed, slowly at first, building up as you slim down.

Interesting thread, I think that obese people (most not all) should take responsibility for themselves and not blame anyone/anything else. I say this as someone with a BMI in the obese range myself. I eat too much. I don't exercise enough. I have a massive list of excuses but the truth is I could shift the weight if I applied myself. I have a huge problem with emotional/boredom eating and suffer from depression which makes motivation difficult a lot of the time. However, I could do it, I just don't.

OP, I have a couple of questions for you.

You say above that you didn't lose much on the low calorie food replacement type diets. I'm wondering how you think the surgery will help you in that case? How many calories a day will you be consuming post op? How many doctors/specialists have you seen regarding this inability to lose weight? I am no HCP but I understand that difficulty losing weight can be a sign of an underactive thyroid, have you had this checked? Any other tests?

I do think that surgery is the only option for some, however if it were me I would want to be sure that I had explored all other possible avenues first.

Good luck :)

I suspect it's totally irrelevant who's 'fault' it is. The main issue is fixing the problem that exists. And I am guessing that once you are obese losing enough weight to get back to a healthy weight must be impossible daunting. I have never even been medically overweight in my life - but even losing the odd stone I want to lose seems unacheivable at times. Whatever works!

I've read the whole of this thread with interest and to be fair OP, you do seem to have all the answers and whilst wanting debate, you sound like you don't like the answers that are being given to you.

No-one can tell you if you have real hunger or it's thirst or just imagined, or you're just plain greedy. I believe some sort of food specialist is the only person who can tell you exactly what is wrong. It isn't right to follow diet and exercise plans and not lose weight if you are following them correctly. That may be where the issue lay. If you are truly ravenously hungry all the time then it certainly sounds like you've got some sort of dis-order. Based on what others have written here I can't see how a gastric sleeve/bypass is going to help. You say it will remove something which creates hunger, but others say that doesn't help.

I can only tell you my story and hope it helps.

In February I weighed nearly 23stones. I was miserable and had started getting sleep apnea and I truly thought I was going to die. I also think I was depressed. I was embarressed by my size and hated being noticed by anyone in any situation. I had low self esteem and I sometimes cried when my darling DP used to make love to me. I couldn't see how he could be attracted to me. I also have lipolymphedema which means that I have huge calves due to my body over produing fat cells which don't go (true, google it) from diet and exercise.

In the Jan I started yet another diet, frantically swimming and starving myself. I then got a leaflet at work from a hypnotherapist who specialised in weight loss. She taught me that I had to eat little and often to speed up my metabolic rate and only actually eat when I was hungry. I mentally I was in the right place to do it. I have worked on food related issues where I could eat and eat until I felt sick, bloated and hated myself. 10 months later I have lost 5st 2lbs and weight 17st 11 so I still have a long way to go. I eat out, I enjoy my food but I can stop when I'm sated (not full). My lipo-lymphedema specialist has told me that for me it's about how I look and not what the scales say.

My main issue with diets is that I used to starve myself. WW didn't work for me because I didn't eat all the food I should have!

I will always have bigs legs, calves & bottom but I feel so much better now as I feel in control. I'm not on a diet, I just don't eat as much any more. Hunger is my trigger but I only eat a small amount, sometimes a carrot, just to get me through to my next main meal point.

I feel like I'm being let free from myself. I'm more confident, I'm happy. I embrace the future with positivity.

I would say OP is to do something else when you are hungry or get it sorted medically...it's one or the other. The more you fixate on the issue the more it will be there

@FourThousandHoles

"You say above that you didn't lose much on the low calorie food replacement type diets. I'm wondering how you think the surgery will help you in that case? How many calories a day will you be consuming post op"

No, I didn't say that, I actually said how I lost 6 stone on Lighterlife and how some of that went back on during my first pregnancy, and some during my 2nd. I did lose at a slower rate than some of the ladies - but I did lose all my excess weight. But unless I stay on Lighterlife for the rest of my life, at £66 a week, I couldn't keep the weight off.

Surgery will help me because it will allow me to get my excess weight off (which is only about the same as I lost on Lighterlife) but eating normal food (once I'm through the post-surgery recovery phase of mushy food) and feeling satisfied, which will be the way I need to eat for the rest of my life. I will have far less hunger hormones, and my body will process food differently (it is less "programmed" to store fat once the removal of the hormone Ghrelin has occured).

@Butternutsquish

"I've read the whole of this thread with interest and to be fair OP, you do seem to have all the answers and whilst wanting debate, you sound like you don't like the answers that are being given to you"

I like the answers, well, enough, they are very good answers, if they provide a solution. But they do not. Somebody said "I think you should spend the money on counselling". Well, I spent really quite a lot of money on 2 years of private counselling already and it didn't solve my weight problem.

Someone said "you shouldn't eat every time you are hungry". Well, I don't. I'm already ignoring a lot of hunger signals just to remain 17 stone.

Someone said "you should do slimming world/weightwatchers/lighterlife" etc. Well, I've done that.

I said how I have a nutritional qualification, because I do, and if I didn't, then people would tell me to see a dietician or a nutritionist or go and do a nutritional qualification!

See, I'm kind of damned if I do and damned if I don't here - if I don't say, "thanks, but trust me I have tried that" then people think I am jumping to surgery as the first option. Its only because I have tried just about everything I can think of that is an option that I have got to the point where I am considering surgery. See? Its not that I don't like the suggestions. To be perfectly fair, in my OP I was not asking for suggestions. My OP was not "AIBU to ask you what I can do to avoid weight loss surgery". My OP was whether or not AIBU to think that for some people it is actually a good option. Not the only option but a GOOD one. That the fault doesn't lie with the individual due to greed but with an innate instinct to satisfy hunger, because for some inexplicable reason, hunger is much increased in certain individuals.

People like to then give you "diet advice". I really appreciate everyone's contribution, I really do, but to be fair I didn't actually ask for diet advice. So advise away, anyone who thinks they have an answer, but I can only apologise if I have already tried it and it hasn't worked for me! I would suggest anyone considering surgery should have tried most things, shouldn't they?!

I certainly agree that anyone who's thinking about surgery should have tried everything, & I certainly applaud your efforts. I don't think you're greedy, I'm just saying what others have said. I have said that only you know whether it's true hunger or something else. It doesn't appear to be normal to have such raging hunger all the time, hence the comment about seeing a specialist about it.

We all have a story to tell about our weight and I'm as guilty as the rest as telling you mine. But considering that we weigh about the same and it seems as if you think surgery is the only option left for you I was trying to show that it may not be.

Can I ask if you've considered being hypnotised?

But Notmy, several posters who have themselves had the surgery have cast some doubt on your assertions that you won't feel as hungry etc after the surgery.

And to answer your question, no, I don't think it's your fault if you have some sort of condition which makes you ravenously hungry all the time

Thanks Butternut. I tried hypnotism a couple of times, with a couple of different practitioners, but it didn't really do anything for me or my appetite, or anything - it didn't make me feel any different (just cost £££)

@ Waterlego - I suspect at first Hecate was just responding to my poor wording that possibly made it sound like I thought I wouldn't be hungry at all. This is not the case, but perhaps I worded it wrongly. I am aware she still feels hunger. Any reduction in hunger would be worthwhile. Any restriction on my intake would be worthwhile. To be fair, it has helped Hecate lose 13 stone! I only have to lose 6.

Also, I was responding a bit to posters who said "but surgery won't change your hunger, just restrict you". Well, to be fair, it DOES change your hunger levels - this is proven through evidence based research. Ghrelin levels are vastly reduced. Sure, if that's not causing you to eat then it won't help as much but my ghrelin levels are elevated - I've had them tested. I am aware I will still feel hungry occasionally but less and then be satisfied on less.

I would be foolish to base my decision on anecdotal evidence alone - that said, anecdotal evidence has also been a part of my overall research of my options, and I am a member of a forum that is for Weight Loss Surgery candidates, and I've been following their progress for some time. The vast majority are delighted with their new reduced appetites and ability to overeat. They have little blips when they are on holiday and sometimes they comfort eat something but they have lost a great great deal of weight regardless.

Many of these people had their surgery as far back as 2005, 2006 etc and are still going strong.

I actually feel very sorry for you as this seems to have taken up your whole life. I hope that you are being realistic about the negative effects of surgery as well as the positive ones.

And I do hope you find some sort of peace

Have you ever tried overeaters anonymous? it sounds to me as though you are decided on surgery but I personally would give them a go as it seems to help you work out why you want to fill this hole you have. (which you seem to be feeding with food)
I have food issues and I found it really helped me.

I've never been enormously overweight, but 12 stone and a bit at 5'3" is quite a serious situation to be in. I know how to lose it, I've done it 3 times now, but I fail to keep it off. I know that the only way I can keep the weight off and be happy and content is lots of regular exercise, but I'm a slacker and somehow Christmas, having to work extra hours,the gym changing the days of the classes, etc. etc. are all excuses that bring about failure. But I do know that i will never keep the weight off, or suceed in losing it without lots of exercise as well as a diet.

2005, 2006....that's really not a long time in terms of discovering long-term effects or ability to maintain a stable weight.

I would still say YABU as I believe that anyone can lose weight without surgery. I don't believe for one minute that it's easy. I am currently trying to change something huge in my lifestyle. I don't want to talk about it here but there are, I believe, a lot of parallels with food issues. I've had food issues myself in the past (bingeing/starving) numerous times. The issue I am currently dealing with feels very similar. There is no surgical solution to my problem (that I know of). I am having to confront it and it's the hardest thing I've ever done. I know that I have to get at the reasons behind my behaviour. However, as you say there are no psychological issues for you then I guess that doesn't apply to you.

Wishing you all the best for reaching your goals.

OP I hope you don't think I was offering diet advice. I'd spotted that you had a nutrition background and I was chucking in my two pennorth about my insulin resistance (which I'm sure you know all about ) in support of your case.

Sometimes eat less move more doesn't work.

I really do wish you well. It sounds like you have thoroughly researched this and I hope it works well for you

OP

Have you seen an endocrinologist? Just in case they have missed a medical cause. I don't see how you can't lose weight on 500 cals a day.

Hope you can find an alternative to surgery.

Interesting and moving thread.

FWIW I think I agree with the OP.

Looking at it from another perspective - I am 5'4 and have always been considered slim. My highest unpregnant weight has been 9st 7. (My 9 months pregnant weight was 10st 7 each time)

While still BF my DC3 I joined an eating healthily thread (the original Shiney one) because I wanted support to lose approx 4-5 lbs. < waves to Jacqueline >

I had days when I was so hungry I could have chewed my own arm off but struggled to lose more than a pound.

Eventually I stopped BF and tried again, and bingo, within weeks I was down to a delighted 8st 11 with no real effort and no hunger.

Should I be boasting about my wonderful will-power and how I overcame my "urges" to slim down?

I don't think so, do you? I lost weight as it seemed my body was willing to let me do so at that point in my life. I think some people's bodies are never willing to let them lose weight.

I think it boils down to this.

I am LUCKY.

People like the OP are UNLUCKY.

I really think this.

"I don't see how you can't lose weight on 500 cals a day"

I did lose weight on 500 calories a day. I lost 6 stone

But I had to eat again, I was pregnant. It went back on.

I am looking for sustainable weight loss with manageable hunger, gained by healthy eating an exercise, which up till now, due to hunger, has failed me.

Surgery should make my hunger manageable in the long term for sustainable weight loss and subsequent maintenance.

"2005, 2006....that's really not a long time in terms of discovering long-term effects or ability to maintain a stable weight"

No, but better than the Weight Watchers forums who have had the same people on them for years, losing and gaining the same stone, and the Lighterlife/Cambridge etc forums (same except they are losing and gaining 3 stone or more).

Sure, I could wait till 2036 or something but due to obesity, I might be dead.

"I actually feel very sorry for you as this seems to have taken up your whole life"

It has. Thank you for recognising that, and that this kind of feeling of a wasted life is what drives people to take surgical action.

"Have you ever tried overeaters anonymous"

Yes

I think overeaters anonymous is great if you find yourself eating even though you are not actually physically hungry, and cannot stop.

I've lost 5.5 stone this year, currently maintaining although it does take an effort to do so.

I started at 16 stone, so a similar amount to you to lose, and I had considered surgery because I genuinely believed I had something "wrong" with me that meant I couldn't lose the weight.

For some reason, having tried all the slimming clubs/ cheaper shake diets, I had never got the weight off and kept it off. This time, I've done it alone, and it has been relatively easy. I'm not obsessed with food, I have retrained my hungry/ full signals in large part. (don't get me wrong, there are still days with family bags of maltesers/ takeaways/ shakes etc, but they are fewer, and I don't judge myself harshly for them.)

A couple of negatives - at 10.5 stone, so hardly thin, I am cold All The Time. Seriously freezing, while other people are warm. This is apparently hormones or something. Body trying to put weight on.
And in spite of losing the weight reasonably slowly - mostly 3 ish lb a week, although in one of the first weeks I lost a stone - I do have crepey, baggy skin round the middle. Oh, and am still bordering on overweight according to waist measurement, so still at risk of diabetes etc.

Losing weight is a good thing, but I am very wary of surgery for someone who isn't actually all that fat.