to think that for some obese people, its not their fault, and surgery is a really good option?

[NotMyBigFatFault]

I weigh 17 and a half stone. I am 5 foot 3. Size 22.

I am hungry most the time. I wake up with a hunger, I have breakfast, cereal, or toast, or something else if I am on a proper "diet" (done them all - Atkins, Lighterlife, Slimming World, Weight Watchers, Cambridge, calorie counting, etc). By 9am I am hungry again. By 11am I am ready for lunch. By 1pm I am ready for more. I could go on but my obesity is not driven, in my opinion by greed (which would be eating way beyond which one is hungry) but by hunger. Genuine hunger for perfectly normal, even healthy food.

I know this is not the case with all obese people. But for quite a few it is.

I remember begging my Nanny to commence lunch proceedings at 11am one day. I was absolutely ravenous. I just wanted that sandwich so much. I could; have eaten 10 of them. I was 4 years old and had no idea what comfort eating was - I knew what tummy rumbles were, though.

My dad has never felt properly full. He stops eating, because he knows he'll get really really big if he doesn't, but he always has a knawing desire to eat. He exercises plenty of self control, which is why he is about 18 stone, not 27 stone, or 32 stone, or 36 stone and dead.

My mother has been on the dieting merry-go-round all her life (well, since she was 9). She has always been hungry. She doesn't actually eat particularly large portions, she's a bit of a picker, because she feels nauseous if she gets properly hungry due to medication she is on, but I can put way more away than her, though I try not to, as I am always on a diet. Being on a diet most the time and only breaking it when I can't stand it anymore is what keeps me at 17 and a half stone. I'd weigh more if I didn't exercise this level of self control. Its driven by fear for my health and vanity.

I recently sought weight loss surgery, looked at options, decided on either a Gastric Bypass or Sleeve Gastronectomy (gastric sleeve), and saw an eminent consultant, who approved me for surgery. The surgery will be funded privately by myself. We decided on the sleeve. The procedure cuts away the fundus part of the stomach, reducing your stomach size to 25% of what it was, but most importantly, removes the part of the stomach which is responsible for secreting Ghrelin , reducing that knawing, all consuming and unrelenting hunger that makes some obese people, well, obese. Its keyhole surgery under general anaesthetic.

I go on bike rides, walks, I do trampolining, dancing, the gym, enjoy the great outdoors, and running about with my kids. I am reasonably fit considering my size.

AIBU to think that obesity is not all about "greed", lack of self-denial (we are talking a lifetime, by the way, not a few weeks), "junk food", or "lack of exercise"? Is there anyone out there who thinks, actually, this is not my fault ?

Kladd - thank you for answering & it certainly wasn't too long, it was very interesting (sorry, I'm sure there's a more polite way of saying that?) and actually makes me quite ashamed at not being able to take control of my own issues when by comparision to what you have to deal with - mine are nothing

On the bright side, my cellar looks like Asda with a room full of shelves all neatly stocked with the jars and cans perfectly lined up. I certainly won't go hungry when zombie armeggedon comes That did make me laugh though!!

Snow thank you for replying as well. That is really interesting too... I will go and google her now. Thank you so much!

No, don't feel bad. The reason I'm happy to talk about it is that I hope it will make people think and be less judgmental. Sledge hammer to crack a nut sort of thing. I can't stand the venom that gets spat at people with weight problems these days.

OP, YANBU for feeling the way you do, but IMO the cause of the hunger needs to be dealt with. Reasons for hunger (apart from actual hunger) can be: eating too much; dehydration and boredom (even if you don't think you comfort eat). If you feel hungry at 11am go for a walk, make yourself a cup of tea and have a chat with someone, or just do something (anything) to not think about your stomach.

I am sure a gastric bypass surgeon worth his salt would not actually proceed with an operation until you lost a certain amount of weight as it is a dangerous operation.

chipping - I would have loved to have lost the weight I have without having the surgery. I was terrified prior to having the surgery, thought I was going to die on the operating table and have to say goodbye to my 3 young children. I was an absolute mess. If I thought there was any other way for me to deal with this then I would have taken it.

I have had therapy, counselling, seen a therapist and attempted several different diet programmes and none of them addressed my issues enough. I was crippled. I was unable to walk at all, couldn't stand for more than 30 seconds, DH had to be my full time carer, he would help wash me and attend to me in the loo if I needed him to. My life was not a life.

I put surgery off for several years, I had abuse hurled at me daily in the street by people who feel it's fine to abuse and belittle overweight people. I became a hermit too scared to leave the house because of peoples reaction to me, I then began suffering with depression, not getting out of bed for days on end and wanting to kill myself.

I had no life and I was ruining the life of all those around me. This surgery has given me my life back, my husband his wife back and my children their Mummy back. I feel alive again.

I am not sick when I eat as I make sure I stop when I feel full (which was a feeling I had to teach myself as I had learnt to over ride it with years of over eating) if I continued to eat past full, the feeling becomes extremely uncomfortable and sometimes painful, I presume if I ate past that I would be violently sick.

I can't express enough how much this surgery has meant to me and my family, I don't feel angry at those people who feel it's not worthy surgery as they obviously have no idea what it can feel like for someone like me or my family and instead of years of the state paying for my disability living allowance, carers allowance and other various benefits we would have remained on and the masses of health care I would have required, I am now able to use my degree and teach, my dissertation is being published and I am applying for my masters, my future will pay for the cost of my op several times over I will ensure that.

Most importantly though is that the heartache of my husband and children when I died prematurely has been spared and that is worth more than anything.

It is not easy though, I work hard at this everyday. I think the fear of the operation made me face up to how easily I could die and made me realise how much I wanted to live.

Sorry I have prattled on for far too long and probably not made any sense, it's been quite theraputic for me though, so thanks for that

Kladd - it upsets me/makes me angry too. Some people think it's just fine to be judgemental and so incredibly rude and nasty about it. They spout ignorant crap & have such a holier than thou attitude :(

The one thing that generally stops me replying too harshly is that to my immense shame I do actually remember being that thin person and wondering how people could let themselves go and how the hell they actually put that much weight on and why couldn't they just 'diet a little & exercise' which (until I got ill) was all I had to do to stay in great shape (I miss those days!!). I was never 'nasty' with it, but I didn't understand. I used to complain I couldn't find adult style clothes in my size and hated having to buy kids clothes instead - what I wouldn't do to have that problem now.

JH - Sorry, I probably didn't word my question very well. I appreciate that at the time you felt there was no other way to do it than have the sleeve or you wouldn't have - obviously x I just meant that as part of having it done you have been through a lot of counselling with the treatment that is different to what's available ordinarily - I was asking if you now feel that, that alone, would have achieve anything if it was available? But having read your post, I don't think you do.

With all of your counselling/therapy etc - do you now know what the root of the problem was/is? If you do, is it something you can talk about or is it too personal?

Your life certainly wasn't a life :( In my dark moments I fear getting there too as I'm not doing anything to head in the other direction, though I have to say, I do think this thread is the best thing to have happened to me in a long time.

I tried Paul McKenna. I struggled with knowing which feeling was full. I was literally eating a couple of teaspoons of food and 'feeling full' or thought I was, I think I was just registering food hitting my digestive system - but there wasn't another/different sensation after that until I got to 'too full' - but a couple of teaspoons can't be 'full enough' - but I did what he said and stopped eating, ate again when hungry - but it was just so competely impractical that I gave up on it.

Do you mind saying what weight you had got to before the surgery? (Don't if you don't want to).

Part of me is terrified of ending up how you were before your surgery and yet there is still something stopping me from actually dealing with it. A bereavement hasn't helped at all - it's set me back quite a bit :( but if I don't do something it could be me next. My family history alone is enough for concern let alone adding in obesity. I feel like the thin me is inside the fat me, just waiting to get out - I just want to climb out and I don't want it to be so fucking hard :(

I would love to hear anything else you have to say about it. Before the surgery, the surgery or now. However, if you don't want to talk about it anymore I completely understand and am totally grateful for all you have already written x

Just because you're hungry all the time doesn't mean you have to EAT all the time. Exert some self control! It's really not that difficult.

You will feel hungry. Head hunger very soon post op and actual hunger within 12 months in my experience. I've lost 11 stone in as many months thanks to wls, its completely changed my life. I'm thankful daily for the chance to do this, my health is 100% better, even my career has changed 100% for the better, I'm happier, fitter, more energetic. I'm no longer diabetic, very few joint pains - any I have are wear and tear damage due to being morbidly obese for 20 years - and I feel more confident than ever. People treat me as an equal now because yes, so many people prejudge on appearance, its not even close to funny.

But.....its far far from easy, you need immense will power to survive the pre op liver shrinking diet, never mind the month or two of liquid/puree/mashed up food post op. For me its been worth it. I'm still losing weight with little effort, but I have discovered to my shame that I can still eat chocolate, cake, crisp, drink alcohol...the things that I admit were my downfall. I just have to restrict the amount as even the smallest amount can make me feel lousy with dumping syndrome....sleeve gastrectomy does not make you suffer this so you will have to be so careful.

I met someone very recently who had a bypass, like me, but 2.5 years ago. She lost 5 stone in her first year, and has put 2 on since. She scared me silly as that's my biggest fear. I'm sure it won't happen to me, but I've seen it with other long term post op patients, and the thing that's singled those particular people out is that being unable to restrict their hunger was not their fault. Think about it, take it from someone who has been there, you didn't get to be obese by eating healthy food in great quantities, no matter how much you know about nutrition, remove that blindfold from your eyes. Be completely realistic about what wls will require from you and where it can take you and you will succeed. Realise too that the surgeon that approved your surgery has a financial interest in doing so!

I recommend joining a face to face support group in your area, check out the great online forums in the UK and I wish you well and hope it changes your life as it has mine.

I'm astonished that all these people are hungry all the time. I actually thought that kind of hunger was rare. I hardly ever feel properly hungry, because I tend to graze. When I let myself get hungry (rare) it's so much more fun to eat, but I don't have much willpower.

I am lucky in that I am very slim. However, I do eat all the time and always think about food. I am very active which probably keeps my weight down but even I can see it's not as easy as saying "stop eating" because I doubt very much I would have the willpower to starve myself. Eating habits are deeply engrained.

ShendangRoad - did you even bother to read any of the posts? Maybe if you did you would have educated yourself a little.

Etti - I'm pleased you are so much happier :) I really hope you can avoid putting the weight back on - I can't think of anything worse than going through with wls, losing the weight, then ending up obese again - but I can see how easily it would happen if you hadn't addressed whatever got your there in the first place. Good luck & thank you for posting.

If anyone can post it - I'd be interested to know what the pre-surgery diet consists of.

Cumbria - thank you for posting too. It's nice to have the understanding from some slim people who can accept that it's not just as simple as 'stop eating'. There really is very little known about it (from the medical world) but hopefully something will change there soon.

Things like 'over active thyroid' where people can eat vast quantities of food and yet the weight just drops off of them (when they're previously really struggled to lose even the odd pound or two as is happening with one of my best friends who has just had surgery on her thyroid to fix it - for the second time) really does show that not everyone is built the same inside. She tried all kinds of things to lose weight for her wedding 4 years ago and over an 18 month period lost about half a stone. Until she had this surgery a month or so ago she was eating like a horse and the weight was just falling off her.

I'm not saying people don't have to take responsibility for their weight etc You just have to deal with how your own body works - I just wish that some people would accept that we aren't all created equally and that it is a lot harder for some people to maintain a good weight than others and that makes a lot of people miserable.

OP, I'd just like to wish you all the very best. You have responded with such grace to some really rude posters on this thread!

However, I'm worried that- in the face of the experiences of people on this thread who have actually had this surgery- you seem convinced that it will magically succeed in making the hunger go away. Please have a think about how you will feel if, as they report, that's not the case, it merely prevents you from eating as much. It would be devastating to have placed so much hope in this procedure and then to have it dashed.

Pre surgery diet for me is thus: (this will identify my surgeon to anyone who has used him but I don't suppose that matters)

CLEAR SOUP (CONSOMME, OXO CUBES, KNORR CUBES & BOVRIL (JARDOX)
SUGAR FREE JELLY
CLEAR FLUIDS, FRUIT/HERB TEAS, BLACK TEA/COFFEES & SUGAR FREE SQUASHES
2 meals per day consisting of either 2 EGGS (max per day), or A PIECE OF STEAMED OR GRILLED CHICKEN OR WHITE FISH OR QUORN.
GREEN VEGETABLES AND GREEN SALAD CAN BE ADDED TO THE CHICKEN FISH OR QUORN.
NO SALAD DRESSINGS OR SAUCES TO BE ADDED. YOU CAN ONLY USE BLACK PEPPER AND LEMON JUICE.
YOU CAN HAVE 3 SMALL PORTIONS OF FRUITS A DAY
YOU MUST DRINK 3-4 LITRES OF FLUID EVERY DAY
ANYTHING NOT ON THE LIST IS NOT ALLOWED

Thank you everyone for your contributions, particularly Klad and Jaqueline

Fetchez, thank you so much.

To be honest, I think it sounds like I place more hope on the hunger thing than I do. I don't want to never feel hungry - I want to feel normal hunger. I'd be a bit pissed off if I never felt hungry again! Then there would be no desire to eat and zero enjoyment in food. I still want to enjoy food, I just want to be satisfied by less, and less often.

I think the reason I mentioned it in relation to the operation etc is that this procedure in particular removes the fundus of the stomach which secretes the ghrelin hormone. I have far too much of this hormone in my system - this has been tested. Its out of control and as such this will be solved when they remove the body part that secretes it.

My body will still tell me when it NEEDS food. I might also get "head hunger" which is fine, I can deal with that, I already do have that side of things under control - if I didn't I'd be much bigger.

Any reduction in genuine hunger and any situation that means it takes less to satisfy (smaller stomach) will help me.

I just wanted to outline why this procedure in particular deals with that better than say, a gastric band, which is not such a permenant thing - if you have a band, you still have your entire fundus and your ghrelin.

I think, (possibly because i expressed it badly) people think I have this idea that its a magic ticket but really its not, I realise that, but I do think this particular surgery will really address my particular problem at its origin, and the most likely outcome is that I lose the majority of my excess weight.

I will update this thread from time to time after the surgery.

Good luck with your surgery. I'm kind of jealous, but I know it would only make things worse for me.

Op, take on board Jacqueline and Hecate's wise words, they have been through this.
I know of a lady local to me who has had a gastric band and she is now (12mths on) a different person, not just weight wise but also in her attitude, she is more confident and more empowered.
I agree with those that say surgery is not an easy option, it isn't by any stretch. I know JacquelineHyde and have heard all about her struggles and her journey through this. It is a massive decision and not at all the easy option.
The myth that obese people are necessarily lazy and ill disciplined needs disspelling, Jacqueline has gained a terrific degree in the past few years and is about to be bloody published! All this with 3 children and the struggles with her health. She is an inspiration, not lazy or someone who takes the easy option.
Very much think that there is more at play here and Op, counselling must be a way forward. Good luck whatever you decide to do

Thanks Lizzylou.

Counselling doesn't stop you feeling hungry, nor does it magic up a way for you not to eat when you are hungry, unfortunately, as I learned during the 2 years of private counselling I paid for. Nor does it somehow make it easier to just not eat if you are genuinely hungry.

Counselling is great, though! Everyone should have it.

But it doesn't help you lose weight.

Thanks for your well-wishes. It certainly is a massive decision, and it certainly isn't an easy option.

Sorry, missed that you'd had counselling!
There are all sorts of reasons why people are overweight, not just that they eat too much/don't move enough.

Very best of luck!

I don't know much about these operations but is much known about possible long-term effects? I think I'd be concerned about that if it were me.

But I'm afraid I'm another one who doesn't understand why there were no obese people in the UK in the 1950s. Actually, I don't even remember obese people when I was growing up in the 70s/80s. Overweight people, yes, but not obese. When I think of the largest person at my school who everyone thought was absolutely enormous....have looked at old school pics recently and the boy in question actually wasn't very big by todays' standards. What's going on? If it's true that obesity is unavoidable for some these days, why hasn't it always been the case?

Good luck OP.

I have insulin resistance and I feel desperately hungry when I've eaten carbs. The trigger in my brain that tells me I'm full never happens with a carb based meal.

I've been maintaining a three stone weightloss after doing Atkins for 5 years and I thought I was 'cured'. Recently I've had to do a low residue diet for two weeks and that's virtually impossible for a low carber as we eat far too much fibre ;-) I'm 6 weeks on from that now, I've gained a lot of weight and I feel hungry all the time. It's proving very difficult to pack in the potatoes and rice even though I actually don't like them at all.

The pre-op diet is pretty much hardcore seventies low carb low fat with the addition of a bit of fruit. It's pretty much what I did to kick start low carbing then I gradually increased fats and a wider range of veg. I have never reintroduced fruit, it causes a massive flood of insulin and I'm intolerant to fruit fibres.

For the vast majority of people weight is relatively easily controllable but for a few there is a harder job ahead

Take away the 'blame' and reasons of why someone is fat and yes, surgery can be a good option.

However, the biggest bar to weightloss is excuses. I know as I've been there. I attend slimming world at present, the new Extra Easy is amazing, along with body magic EVERYONE can do it.

I do feel that support and a kind of opening up to therapy (whether privately or in a group), honesty and commitment are essential, and more important than the food we eat.

A lot of healthy foods have too many calories to eat regularly or in large amounts.

For a size 22. I don't think surgery is necessary, I do think therapy about the relationship a person has with food is.

I don't do 'blame' its negative. I am very big on responsibility though, and even surgery comes with a commitment from a person to take that responsibility.

When I THINK about food I feel hungry. Whether my diet is healthy or not, if my weight is on my mind I feel hungry. My tactic is whenever I feel hungry I have a warm drink and wait 20 minutes. I do this about 3 times (if its not a mealtime) and more often than not, I'm not hungry at all. Snacking is good, but snacking on top of big meals isn't, so I split my evening meal into two parts. When I started on Slimming World I was hungry all the time because I was thinking about food all the time, not because I was hungry. It took about 3 months to finally feel satisfied on less, not because my stomach shrank or any of that guff but because I wasn't so obsessed!

Notmybigfatfault you sound utterly defeated and I know that feeling only too well. Finding the right weightloss plan for yourself is a long journey. Its NOT your big fat fault you haven't found the right weightloss plan yet, and if you genuinely feel surgery is the only option for you, then persue it, but know that in the long term, surgery requires just as much, if not more commitment than any diet.

I will ALWAYS be a recovering fatty and I will always want it to remain in my control, I never ever want to be fat again (and I still am a bit, but not as much!) but as a food lover, I cannot imagine anything worse than not being able to enjoy a good meal, or a McDonalds ocassionally - and the new Slimming World allows me to carry on my love affair with food without piling on the lbs. Good luck. x

By the way I also gave up bread. Now I don't feel hungry because the massive 'sponge affect' has been removed. I also put on and lose weight easily.