to think that for some obese people, its not their fault, and surgery is a really good option?

[NotMyBigFatFault]

I weigh 17 and a half stone. I am 5 foot 3. Size 22.

I am hungry most the time. I wake up with a hunger, I have breakfast, cereal, or toast, or something else if I am on a proper "diet" (done them all - Atkins, Lighterlife, Slimming World, Weight Watchers, Cambridge, calorie counting, etc). By 9am I am hungry again. By 11am I am ready for lunch. By 1pm I am ready for more. I could go on but my obesity is not driven, in my opinion by greed (which would be eating way beyond which one is hungry) but by hunger. Genuine hunger for perfectly normal, even healthy food.

I know this is not the case with all obese people. But for quite a few it is.

I remember begging my Nanny to commence lunch proceedings at 11am one day. I was absolutely ravenous. I just wanted that sandwich so much. I could; have eaten 10 of them. I was 4 years old and had no idea what comfort eating was - I knew what tummy rumbles were, though.

My dad has never felt properly full. He stops eating, because he knows he'll get really really big if he doesn't, but he always has a knawing desire to eat. He exercises plenty of self control, which is why he is about 18 stone, not 27 stone, or 32 stone, or 36 stone and dead.

My mother has been on the dieting merry-go-round all her life (well, since she was 9). She has always been hungry. She doesn't actually eat particularly large portions, she's a bit of a picker, because she feels nauseous if she gets properly hungry due to medication she is on, but I can put way more away than her, though I try not to, as I am always on a diet. Being on a diet most the time and only breaking it when I can't stand it anymore is what keeps me at 17 and a half stone. I'd weigh more if I didn't exercise this level of self control. Its driven by fear for my health and vanity.

I recently sought weight loss surgery, looked at options, decided on either a Gastric Bypass or Sleeve Gastronectomy (gastric sleeve), and saw an eminent consultant, who approved me for surgery. The surgery will be funded privately by myself. We decided on the sleeve. The procedure cuts away the fundus part of the stomach, reducing your stomach size to 25% of what it was, but most importantly, removes the part of the stomach which is responsible for secreting Ghrelin , reducing that knawing, all consuming and unrelenting hunger that makes some obese people, well, obese. Its keyhole surgery under general anaesthetic.

I go on bike rides, walks, I do trampolining, dancing, the gym, enjoy the great outdoors, and running about with my kids. I am reasonably fit considering my size.

AIBU to think that obesity is not all about "greed", lack of self-denial (we are talking a lifetime, by the way, not a few weeks), "junk food", or "lack of exercise"? Is there anyone out there who thinks, actually, this is not my fault ?

[NotMyBigFatFault]

Thank you Margotcat. Good luck with your procedure. Your weight loss will be much easier to achieve and maintain after the procedure and with any luck will give you freedom from the diet cycle. I have found it liberating!

[Margocat]

OP!! Thank you so much for coming back and updating us! Im the person who bumped the thread, as I'd been searching for gastric surgery threads and had come across it. I'm so pleased it's worked out so well for you.

I'll have to read back to remember whether you had a sleeve or bypass or band. I'm booked in for a sleeve on Friday. I'm a similar size to where you started and similarly have pretty much tried every diet going and lost 4/5 stone too many times to remember, but then been entirely 'responsible' and 'to blame' for it all going back on (and more)!

Im really encouraged by your update. Thank you!

[youllshootyoureyeout]

Have just read your last post op about being happy because you look "normal" and eat like a "normal" person as viewed by society and whilst I am so pleased for your happiness I find that sentiment desperately sad.

It says far more about our society than yourself, that we are outraged by racism, sexism, prejudice against the disabled, homophobia etc etc, yet it is still ok for us to fat shame people into feeling guilty for a body shape whether it is their fault or not. The average size woman now weighs 23% less than the "ideal" model sized woman and no, that is not because we are getting bigger, but more that the ideal is shrinking.

I wish you much happiness in your new life op.

[youllshootyoureyeout]

Sorry, didn't notice the original date.

[youllshootyoureyeout]

Op, I would never encourage anyone to go through weight loss surgery as the after effects are often debilitating and painful, please make sure you do as much research as possible before going ahead.

I recommend this book Health At Every Size by Linda Bacon:
www.amazon.co.uk/Health-At-Every-Size-Surprising-ebook/dp/B003UBAWZY/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1420410122&sr=1-1&keywords=health%20at%20every%20size&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21
It really is an eye opener and contains information everyone should know (it is based on US stats, but reflects UK beliefs and facts too). Please also take
a look at the HAES websites, both US and UK, I really feel you will benefit.

There is absolutely nothing "wrong" with you or your body. I really wish you all the best. X

[BreeVDKamp]

That's a great update op :)

[NotMyBigFatFault]

Its funny because I've just been reading back the thread and I'd forgotten how full of scorn some people were!

[editthis]

Being overweight made me realise something else: people do not exaggerate things as much as I used to think (wish?) they did. For example, when someone like Gemma Collins says people have sent her death threats for being overweight, I believe her.

When I was overweight I was nudging a size 14 but still wearing a 12 as I didn't want to buy bigger clothes (I am small so I was definitely bigger than I should have been - this is relevant) and over a period of a year I was called fat, to my face, by 1) a man on a train, 2) a man in a club and 3) a "friend" of a friend at a party. All while I was minding my own business, none as a result of a conversation about it or in the interests of my health.

Not that it really matters, people have been called far worse, but I was that people could be so rude when I still don't even consider that I was that big. It just gave me a tiny - and very useful - insight into how badly overweight people are made to feel, and I don't think it is ever deserved.

[editthis]

Well done OP, glad to hear you're feeling better.

I was interested by this thread. I have never been obese but I have been overweight. What is alarming is that, when perhaps a stone overweight, I started to get anxious about being hungry in, say, my in-laws' house, and not having anything to eat after dinner in case I was peckish, for instance, while staying over. So I used to take oatcakes or chocolate or something just in case. But that's a bit frightening to me, as it's not something I feel the need to do now that I'm no longer that weight. And I can barely even understand it any more. (This was only about three years ago.)

Never having been in your position, OP, I would hate to pass judgement on what is and isn't possible. With my own experience in mind, I wouldn't be at all surprised if, the more one eats, there is some sort of change in brain chemistry (can you tell I'm not a scientist?) affecting appetite. This seems linked, in my entirely unresearched and inexpert view, to insulin and glycemic index but I think there is more to it than that. However, as one poster on the first page says, there is a difference between fault and responsibility and I think s/he expressed it well.

Once again, congratulations on your success.

[Ilovefluffysheep]

So pleased to hear your update, thats amazing.

I would love this procedure, but don't have the funds. Have also had and need further significant bladder surgery - my bladder is being removed this summer and a new pouch being made out of bowel, with a catheter channel made through my stomach. Not sure if that would make it possible to have any kind of surgery of this type in the future.

I was quite suprised to see I'd commented on thread when reading through, as didn't remember!

I probably weigh not far off what you did now before you had the surgery. Have yo-yoed up and down so many times. The only thing I have found that I can do that removes the real hunger urges is low carbing, which I am starting again now. It is a little tricky as I am vegetarian, and therefore quite boring as I eat the same old foods, but it seems to be the only thing that keeps the hunger pangs at bay. I do still get my brain telling me I'm hungry, but its completely different to the normal hunger sensations I get, which are never ending, and leave me being able to eat continuously with no off switch. I do wonder if I am carb sensitive, as it seems the more I eat of them the hungrier I get.

Anyway, thanks again, am so pleased for you.

[NotMyBigFatFault]

Thanks for bumping this.

I am now 3 years post surgery and 8 stone lighter. I am a size 10!

Having the surgery has been the best thing I ever did, and has convinced me of many of the points I made in my original post 3 years ago.

I now feel "normal". I feel similar levels of appetite and hunger that I suspected "naturally slim" people had.

I can eat 3 sensible sized meals of healthy, nutritious food a day and feel satisfied.

I have pretty much lost any desire to eat anything sweet as well.

I don't have any issued regarding emotional eating or anything like that because, as I suspected, my old eating habits were driven by excessive hunger and not by emotional factors. So its as if the issue had been fixed. I always felt it was a physical one, I could never quite relate to people talking about the "emotional reasons" why a person ate when my eating was being driven by insatiable hunger.

I don't feel this hunger anymore. If I don't eat for several hours, I get a perfectly comfortable "cue to eat" from my stomach, but can be delayed I were stuck on a train or busy doing something else. Before surgery this would have caused immense physical discomfort and light headedness and extreme agitation and distraction. You can't live like that. Now I don't have to.

I feel the surgery had made me "normal". It has made me feel normal, look "normal" (whatever that is) and I am no longer judged by society for something that all along, I really did not feel was my fault.

There will always be haters who have no empathy for the fat people who can help it and for the fat people who for whatever reason can't. I'm glad I have this insight - I think I'm a better person for it. I feel really sorry for people like Katie Hopkins and the like.

Thanks for reading and thanks for bumping it.

[BreeVDKamp]

Well aware this is a zombie thread, but with the Katie Hopkins fat thread going on at the moment it is amazing to me how many people on this thread are saying that OP made herself fat, and it is all her fault.... Whereas everyone on the KH thread despises Katie Hopkins for saying the same thing... Ah, Mumsnet!!

Glad this has worked out for you OP (if you even still come on mumsnet!! :) )

[Margocat]

As you'll have seen, this is a very old thread and the only reason I resurrected it was because I was really interested in how the OP had got on since her operation. I wouldn't like it to be an opportunity for people to engage in more negative comments about those who struggle with their weight. Thanks.

[Babycham1979]

It amazes me when I see people constantly feeding their 'hungry' children throughout the day just because they demand food. Humans have survived millennia without constantly feeding, yet we suddenly live in such a time of plenty that instant gratification is king.

There's nothing wrong with feeling hungry and certainly nothing wrong with waiting until the next set meal. Eating can become compulsive (plus, constant eating will stretch the stomach, thereby necessitating yet more food to fill it). NOT eating can actually help you train yourself to be less 'hungry'.

OP, as others have said, I wonder if your feeling of hunger is something else? Smokers 'need' another fag, but they don't really, it's a craving and it can be controlled.

[Babycham1979]

It amazes me when I see people constantly feeding their 'hungry' children throughout the day just because they demand food. Humans have survived millennia without constantly feeding, yet we suddenly live in such a time of plenty that instant gratification is king.

There's nothing wrong with feeling hungry and certainly nothing wrong with waiting until the next set meal. Eating can become compulsive (plus, constant eating will stretch the stomach, thereby necessitating yet more food to fill it). NOT eating can actually help you train yourself to be less 'hungry'.

OP, as others have said, I wonder if your feeling of hunger is something else? Smokers 'need' another fag, but they don't really, it's a craving and it can be controlled.

[vivideye]

17 stone is not evidence of self restraint. Quite the reverse, in fact. Stop deluding yourself.

[mommy2ash]

I think to lose weight you really need to look at the root cause of gaining weight to begin with. you need to take responsibility and aim to get rid of bad habits and change your lifestyle for one you can maintain. it isn't easy at all.

it sounds like you have been over eating since you were a small child and not eating properly runs in your family.

hunger is a horrible feeling i view it as a withdrawal symptom when I change my eating habits. I have noticed after a while of overeating I am able to put away more food without being full when I decide to change this the body of course reacts. after a while me eating properly that goes away and my appetite is smaller and I am full quicker.

at the minute I have set out a meal plan of what I think is a reasonable amount of food to eat. I only buy off that list and eat at regular times. yes I am hungry but I don't think that is a bad thing. there is a difference between hungry and starving.

I do think surgery can help some people but not without help getting to cause of the weight gain to begin with. for most I think it's an emotional thing rather that physical and I say that as someone with a very under active not stable thyroid.

[Margocat]

I know this is a very old thread, but any update OP?

[cakewench]

Please remember to take vitamins; most complications I know of from this surgery and similar ones (and I'm originally from the US where we've had these surgeries for a while, hence having time to see the impact over the course of several years down the road) are from people not getting the vitamins they need, for various reasons. Easily fixed with foresight, not easily fixed in hindsight.

Glad to hear it's working out for you. :)

[NotMyBigFatFault]

Interesting article on Ghrelin

Another

[BokkleofSterra]

NotMyBigFatFault thank you it is good to know the costs involved. I will have to research the upper age limit for wls. Just so tired of being on the hamster wheel of weight all my life.

[NotMyBigFatFault]

@Bokkle sure, it cost £9995 (10k, basically!)

It was done privately, in a private hospital, which was more like a hotel than a hospital. I had a 3 night stay and excellent nursing care, and the cost includes care for any "complications" that may arise - though its looking like everything is fine so that's probably irrelevant though it is important I think to have an all inclusive package and that's also why I wouldn't go abroad for it (if given the choice which I do have, if it was the difference between never having it then I suppose I might)

So its sort of like buying a not too expensive car.

In cost.

To me, it was a lot more in value, in terms of what I feel its going to give me! I feel liberated. I know I sound impossibly smug but I just think, what a great world we live in that there are people who are willing to dedicate their lives and careers to helping other people (and that goes for lots of medical things, not just bariatric surgeons and nurses)

My synopsis is that if you are significantly obese, hungry a lot of the time (as opposed to being a junk food addict or chocoholic because you like the taste or that kind of dependence driven by desire), have tried to lose weight before but have been unable to maintain any significant weight loss over a longer period and have the money to spare or to spend, then it would be a worthy investment if you do your research and decide the best procedure for you.

[BokkleofSterra]

NotMyBigFatFault congratulations i am so pleased for you. As i am wondering if i could afford to fund my own surgery would you be able to tell me approximately how much the operation costs. I completely understand if you feel unable to say. Wishing you long lasting success

[Ilovefluffysheep]

I never saw this thread the first time, so thanks for the update that bumped it back on the first page.

I can TOTALLY relate to what you are saying, the bit about feeling physical hunger all the time. I also suffer that, literally gnawing hunger pains, and getting the shakes and feeling faint with hunger. And yes, I am also classed as obese, and have been overweight all my adult life (and a lot of my teenage life).

I permanently think about food, planning what I'm going to eat next etc. My willpower is rubbish, and I give in to food that I know I shouldn't, hence I know that its my fault I'm this size. But at the same time, I've often thought it can't be normal to feel this hungry all of the time.

I'm currently doing exante, which is like cambridge/lighter life etc. I don't feel particularly hungry because it sends you into ketosis, a bit like low carbing. However, I know that when I come off it I'll put weight back on, in fact I'm also resigned to it. I am stuck in a circle of yo yo dieting, losing some but always putting it back on. The permanent hunger almost makes me feel like I haven't got an off button sometimes. When I was a teenager I used to wish I could be bulimic, thats how messed up I am. However, I just don't do being sick, and couldn't make myself (I did try).

Its interesting to know that there is procedure which potentially removes the source of the permanent hunger problem by removing the part that produces the hormone. Something I may well look into one day, as I have no doubt that at some point all this lovely weight I've lost will go back on.

For all those that say eat less, its easy - its really not. Do you honestly think there would be so many overweight people in the world if it was that simple?

Op, good luck with your continued recovery and weight loss, sounds like you made totally the right decision.

[HintofBream]

Congratulations, that is brilliant. Now we will all be queueing up to sit by you on the plane!