to think that for some obese people, its not their fault, and surgery is a really good option?

[NotMyBigFatFault]

I weigh 17 and a half stone. I am 5 foot 3. Size 22.

I am hungry most the time. I wake up with a hunger, I have breakfast, cereal, or toast, or something else if I am on a proper "diet" (done them all - Atkins, Lighterlife, Slimming World, Weight Watchers, Cambridge, calorie counting, etc). By 9am I am hungry again. By 11am I am ready for lunch. By 1pm I am ready for more. I could go on but my obesity is not driven, in my opinion by greed (which would be eating way beyond which one is hungry) but by hunger. Genuine hunger for perfectly normal, even healthy food.

I know this is not the case with all obese people. But for quite a few it is.

I remember begging my Nanny to commence lunch proceedings at 11am one day. I was absolutely ravenous. I just wanted that sandwich so much. I could; have eaten 10 of them. I was 4 years old and had no idea what comfort eating was - I knew what tummy rumbles were, though.

My dad has never felt properly full. He stops eating, because he knows he'll get really really big if he doesn't, but he always has a knawing desire to eat. He exercises plenty of self control, which is why he is about 18 stone, not 27 stone, or 32 stone, or 36 stone and dead.

My mother has been on the dieting merry-go-round all her life (well, since she was 9). She has always been hungry. She doesn't actually eat particularly large portions, she's a bit of a picker, because she feels nauseous if she gets properly hungry due to medication she is on, but I can put way more away than her, though I try not to, as I am always on a diet. Being on a diet most the time and only breaking it when I can't stand it anymore is what keeps me at 17 and a half stone. I'd weigh more if I didn't exercise this level of self control. Its driven by fear for my health and vanity.

I recently sought weight loss surgery, looked at options, decided on either a Gastric Bypass or Sleeve Gastronectomy (gastric sleeve), and saw an eminent consultant, who approved me for surgery. The surgery will be funded privately by myself. We decided on the sleeve. The procedure cuts away the fundus part of the stomach, reducing your stomach size to 25% of what it was, but most importantly, removes the part of the stomach which is responsible for secreting Ghrelin , reducing that knawing, all consuming and unrelenting hunger that makes some obese people, well, obese. Its keyhole surgery under general anaesthetic.

I go on bike rides, walks, I do trampolining, dancing, the gym, enjoy the great outdoors, and running about with my kids. I am reasonably fit considering my size.

AIBU to think that obesity is not all about "greed", lack of self-denial (we are talking a lifetime, by the way, not a few weeks), "junk food", or "lack of exercise"? Is there anyone out there who thinks, actually, this is not my fault ?

[HowToLookGoodGlaikit]

Why did Slimming World not work for you?

[GypsyMoth]

So how do we 're set' ourselves?

I found my hunger diminished loads when low carbing

[NotMyBigFatFault]

@ Dude "As noted above, maybe just have to accept feeling hungry some of the time if you want to lose weight. Being hungry does not mean you have to eat. You don't have to eat whenever you are hungry. Just be hungry. You won't die. Eat what you are supposed to on whatever diet you are on and then ignore whether you are hungry or not. Do something else. It sounds like you are very obsessed with food and hunger. That is the real issue.".

Sounds easy, but I do this a lot of the time, have never reached goal weight, and find after a while calorie deprivation is so stressful in the body (you are driven biologically to eat) that somewhere along the way, you'd rather die than be that hungry. You can't sleep. You feel feint. You have a headache. Other people don't have to put up with that just to look average. That is the crux of my debate - the fact that I can't look average unless I am under severe stress and hunger 90% or more of the time, is not normal, and is not my fault.

I was like this as a 3/4 year old. I was breastfed. I was brought up on nutritional meals, brown bread, lean meat and 3 veg...

Its not right.

Are you hungry and headachy 90% of the time?

[johnthepong]

I had a sleeve nearly 2 years ago- lost about 11 stone, great, I feel 100% better.
Dont kid yourself you wont feel hungry though- I certainly do, and maybe even more regularly than before. However, it dosnt take much to fill me up so I cant overeat in one sitting. HOWEVER (and this is a BIG however) I can graze as much as I want to- and for me I never really worked out why I overeat so much, I think its boredom, habit, I dont know. The sleeve has been a lifesaver for me though and I would have it again in a heartbeat.

If you look at the statistics- dieting just simply dosnt work. 95% of people that lose weight put it back on within 2 years. Obesity surgery is the ONLY way that lots of people are able to sustain a good weight loss. I saw counsellors and all sorts but nobody really knows how to deal with overeaters.

[squeakytoy]

I honestly think you just need to get into the right frame of mind.

How much water do you drink in a day? Headaches are often from dehydration. Drink plenty of water and that will help.

[NotMyBigFatFault]

@ "HowtoLookGood" I simply didn't lose any more than 8 pounds.

Followed it to the letter for 7 months. Said, okay, so I'm not gaining, and its healthy food.

Maintained a weight of 16 stone 2 for 6 months and 2 weeks on Slimming World. But the leader started to get rather bored and annoyed with me. I didn't feel welcome, let alone want to pay for the privilige.

[fuckityfuckfuckfuck]

But surgery won't remove the feeling of hunger will it? It will just mean you physically can't eat as much. If you find constant hunger so pervasive, then surely you've had other tests as to why ths might be?

[theDudesmummy]

I did not mean so sound so harsh, sorry. Agree about the low carbing. It works. I would recommend ditching the other myriad diets and strict strict low carb (Atkins or Idiot Proof diets for example). It really works. But you have to stick at it, over the long haul.

[NotMyBigFatFault]

@Squeakytoy I drink 2 of the big Evian 1 litres, plus a few sugar free squash, and a couple of cups of tea. I'm not dehydrated.

[squeakytoy]

And I would also say, you arent really hungry, you just think you are hungry, because when you are on a diet, your life does tend to revolve around food.

I have lost 3 stone now. It has taken 9 months, but it hasnt gone back on, and I didnt follow any specific diet. I just completely changed my eating habits.

[NotMyBigFatFault]

@ fuckity "But surgery won't remove the feeling of hunger will it? It will just mean you physically can't eat as much. If you find constant hunger so pervasive, then surely you've had other tests as to why ths might be?"

Yes, it will. It removes the part of the stomach that produces Ghrelin, which causes hunger. See OP for details.

[fuckityfuckfuckfuck]

Sugar free squash is the devils work imo. How much 'diet' food do you eat? Because low fat, low sugar, crappy food will keep you overweight.

[squeakytoy]

Give up the sugar free squash. It is full of aspartame, which has been proved to cause headaches in many people.

What exercise are you doing every day?

[Xmasbaby11]

It's a tricky one this. I get hungry very often as well and like OP need to eat immediately in the morning, and regularly during the day.

However, in my case I am overweight not because I get hungry - it's because I don't always eat the right things and frequently succumb to chocolate and cake. This is my responsibility, my weakness and not related to how often I feel hungry.

So I really don't know - definitely think you need specialist medical advice if diets are not working, OP. My sympathies are with you because it sounds like you have done everything right.

[Kladdkaka]

I'm overweight but it's not because of what I eat, it's because I never do anything. I did have problems with eating patterns and extreme fluctuating weight, eating till sick and stuff, but my autism therapist has helped me to get it all fairly stable. I lost about 3 stone and have since stuck at the weight I am. I'm not allowed to reduce my calorie intake further.

When I go on holiday and am eating richer icecream food, the weight falls off me. I always lose weight on holiday because I'm active. Even walking round a museum burns more calories than sitting in front of the computer all day.

[HecateGoddessOfTheNight]

It helped me to lose 13 stone, fuckity. But since I started at 36 stone, I am still massive and now I am just static. Not getting fatter but not losing any more
(after some time the stomach stretches again and I now have what I suppose to be a 'normal' sized stomach)

I was supposed to have the bypass, because the sleeve is part 1 in a 2 part op. The sleeve, the dr said, will average a 10 stone weight loss and I was supposed to go after that and have the bypass. (which he felt would have likely killed me at 36stone!) But I never did have the bypass. I kept telling myself that I could do the rest on my own.

But simply slicing off most of my stomach didn't address the reasons why I was eating myself to death and didn't care. It just stopped me from being able to do it any more.

Weight loss surgery solves the problem if your problem is greed. It does not solve your problem if your 'greed' is a symptom of a terrible emotional state.

For me, it was another form of self harm. Along with the overdoses, the cutting, the making myself sick... compulsive overeating is not greed, it's just your weapon of choice.

It does not change the fact that it's still your responsibility.

[tocha]

I agree with Hecate. I am sympathetic to your situation as I am very overweight (13.5 stone) and have a massively screwed up relationship with food, obsessing about it, always thinking of next meal, and suspect I have now hit insulin resistance (raised cholesterol and BP). Am trying to do a lot of brisk walking...

From what I have read gastric surgery is in no way an easy option, and there is still a heck of a lot of effort needed afterwards. But I wish you luck if that's what you and your medical advisers think most appropriate.

[brdgrl]

OP, can I suggest something?
Don't look to posters here for support with this. It won't help you. Some people will be ignorant and tell you to just eat less. Some people will call you lazy or weak. You already know that is the attitude some people will have - and who cares? While you are getting ready for your surgery, you should be focussed absolutely on your own recovery from obesity - which starts NOW that you have made the decision. Talk to doctors and your family and friends, and get referrals to appropriate support groups. Don't worry about changing people's minds now, you know?

A very, very dear friend of mine had gastric band surgery, almost two years ago now. His was done in the US. He had to undergo quite a lot of counselling and testing prior to the surgery. He was never under any illusions that it was an easy fix, or that he didn't need to change his thinking and his behaviour ALONG WITH the surgery. I hope you are getting and will continue to get care and counselling before the surgery.

By the way, my friend is doing really well. It has changed his life. There are huge lifestyle changes he has had to make, and things he has given up forever. But he's very, very happy he made the decision to do it, and I can see an amazing difference in him - not because he has lost over 250 pounds, but because he tries things he never did before, he reaches out to people more...I think he's awesome and I am so, so proud of him.

Good luck.

[NotMyBigFatFault]

Agree that low carbing is the best it has ever been, so to speak - and the after care diet of a sleeve is lean protein, veg, etc etc. I reached the lowest weight I ever managed on low carbing. Its socially isolating and expensive, and you have to really juggle to get the correct amounts of antioxidants and fibre in your diet whilst doing it (I think I mentioned I have a nutritional qualification, well that's why I know those things are important, I am already at an increased risk of developing cancer) but the hunger still does me in. I can't live this way. Not forever. Nobody can. What about when you are 75 and in a nursing home? What about if you quit work to study and have to live on beans on toast for 2 years? What if...you just want to be normal?

[HecateGoddessOfTheNight]

"Yes, it will. It removes the part of the stomach that produces Ghrelin, which causes hunger. See OP for details."

Ha!

wanna bet?

[fuckityfuckfuckfuck]

Low carbing is in no way socially isolating. That sounds a massive excuse to me, sorry. You have the same meals as everyone else, minus the potato, bread or rice. You take a salad to work instead of a sandwich. it's not rocket science, and it's no more expensive ime.

[NotMyBigFatFault]

Thanks Brdgrl, its not that I am looking for support, just raising awareness, and also testing the waters as to how much I might or might not confide in people in "real life" as to what I have done.

I am finding every contribution really useful. People suggesting Paul McKenna and low carbing are helping me to solidify that actually I am at the end of the road, though deep down I know that.

[tocha]

there has also been quite a bit of publicity recently about people who need further ops to remove loose skin following rapid weight after gastric surgery or a VLCD, so you may want to bear that in mind.

[squeakytoy]

I havent found cutting down on carbs to be expensive or socially isolating ..

I just ate less potato, less bread, less sugar. I still went out for meals with all my family. I still ate the same meals as them too. I just had more protein and veg, and less carbs on the plate.

If anything, we have saved money, because we are not buying biscuits, cakes, as much bread, soft drinks, alcohol.

[NotMyBigFatFault]

Hecate, thank you so much for your contributions. Its really really helpful to hear from you.

Would you still have the bypass? Should you? They can revise your pouch and help you with the next step?

Anyway - I don't think my eating is emotional. I am simply hungry. I get physical satisfaction from it. I stop when I am full (or thereabouts - okay if you are in a restaurant sometimes you'll nearly finish your steak and then say, god, someone take it away, it's too nice, etc). But that is normal.

I just want to be normal.

My consultant said he thinks the hunger is a problem in about 1/3 of obese people.