To not think my daughter should be made to use a changing room..

[hairnets]

When getting changed after swimming with her Dad?

He told me today that she received a telling off ("major roasting" were his words) for refusing to use her own changing room after he took her swimming. He felt that it wasn't appropriate for her to get changed out in the open because there were other men about in the room.

She's 5.

I obviously think he's BU and I know exactly why I do but interested in what others think before I bang on about why he's BU - If that makes any sense!!

what has periods to do with this ?

the child is 5yo

hopefully by the time she starts her periods, she won't be being bullied by her father to use a cubicle in the mens changing room

Moominsarescary he did tell me yes. I asked him why to be sure that it was for the reason I thought it was.

See, I think that reading lad's mags (whilst not making someone an entirley bad person) does suggest low moral fibre and if I had known that about him I wouldn't have "fucked" him. I had sex with him after a few dates and fell pregnant by accident.

when's she on her periods [shock

FFS a 5 yr old is a bit different from a 10 plus yr old with plenty of time to emotionally mature and learn to handle her fears.

I mean I remember you as in I remember your thread about swimming and how you thought your DD should be exempt from the rules at the swimming pool....that and the fact you had this weird idea that bikinis were solely a woman's garment.

You seem to be misunderstanding my meaning of "modesty" there LRD.

As I said already, most 5yo girls would be embarassed to be naked in front of strange men, even in front of strange women. Most dads would not want a stranger to be looking at their naked child.

A changing room, where there are also naked adults, is in no way comparable to being on the beach, or in the pool, unless of course it is a nudist resort.

Maybe as she has had several years of competently using a toilet cubicle he thought she should be able to cope with a changing cubicle. Maybe he is a twat. Maybe she was just being naughty and he told her off. Maybe she should use open changing in the womens if she is capable. Maybe he has got the impression in the past that the blokes get uncomfortable changing around her. Maybe the communal changing was very busy. Maybe when he is looking after her he should get to make the judgement on where she should change and whether her behaviour warrants a telling off or not. Maybe she wasn't scared but was just arsing about. Maybe he had no intention of actually making her lock the door.

Surely, it's for HER sake that she should use a cubicle? She's likely to shocked by all htese naked men surrounding her, if she's at all sensitive. 5y.o. do have a feeling of modesty! I.e. at schools/childcare centres for even younger children, the toilets are separate, and when a boy comes onto girs' loo to watch, the girls are extremely embrassed. Being the only small girl in a roomfull of big guys surely is unpleasant to HER? She should not be used 'as if it's normal' to look at naked strange men imo. As a 5y.o, I would feel extremely awkward and even scared in this situation - and am i unreasonable to think that seeing your own dad naked is also wrong (unless absolutely necessary - or the parents aer naturists and want to raise their child the same)??

This seems straightforward. Anywhere I've lived in the UK, the rules of the pool have been that children under 8 can go into the changing room of the opposite sex. The reason for this is that children under that age often aren't capable of drying themselves properly and changing without adult help. Children older than that usually can, and are also heading into puberty, and may make other pubescent people uncomfortable by their presence. No 11 year old wants to be naked in front of their classmates of the opposite sex. Five year olds generally don't care.

As such, a reasonable parent would help a child under 8 get changed and stay with them while they did so. Telling a child off in front of other people because they are uncomfortable with getting changed alone is really not on.

Unless there is some prior issue, there is no reason for a pre pubescent child to be uncomfortable changing alongside naked adults, or for adults to be uncomfortable around a pre pubescent child. If someone is uncomfortable with that for any reason, they should use the changing rooms.

what has periods to do with this ?

the child is 5yo

hopefully by the time she starts her periods, she won't be being bullied by her father to use a cubicle in the mens changing room

Because it's not normal for a child to be so afraid of encloses spaces that she has to use the toilet with the door open....obviously!

Hopefully both parents will get her the help she may need.

See, I think that reading lad's mags (whilst not making someone an entirley bad person) does suggest low moral fibre

So the friend of my son who very recently put himself in very grave danger to rescue someone in Afghan, who adores his parents and little sister, who I post Viz, Nuts and Zoo to possibly has low moral fibre? I just laughed at your other rantings, OP, but really, you need to take your medication.

PRH, many parents will be naked in the presence of their own children. Many people will be naked in the presence of others in changing rooms. Both are entirely different to naturism!

worral, I haven't said anywhere that I am not intending to deal with her claustrophobia. But right now, she's 5 years old and along with most of her little friends has something that irrationally scares her. I'm not going to take her to the doctors although if it continues for much longer I will look in to it.

If/ when I take her to the doctors I'm fairly certain that the advice won't be to simply force her in to small spaces alone.

For those who think he is unreasonable to force her in to the cubicle when he won't go himself, I agree (unsurprisingly!) I feel it is incredibly chauvenistic to expect her to leave her comfort zone whilst a man remains in his.

Also with redragon on why this "modesty" is so important. Do we teach boys to be quite so modest..?

Yes, I was querying your use of 'modesty' squeaky.

What does using the cubicle have to do with modesty?

Surely a towel held up would have been fine? Or her dad could have perhaps held the door open and stood in front of it?

THe solution was not to tell off this child for being scared.

Besides which, maybe some children would be embarrassed at that age, but why does it matter if she isn't? Surely that is something to be celebrated?

And if she's not embarrassed herself (and the OP doesn't seem to think she was), why would the dad need to 'protect her modesty'?

Modesty isn't something someone can impose on you. If she doesn't feel there's a modesty issue, what her dad is doing is not 'protecting her modesty', it's imposing his own standards on her. You and I may disagree whether or not that's right, but please let's not call it 'modesty'. I find that creepy TBH.

I didn't post about the swimming pool thing... Ive only been on here a few months, sorry.

Five year olds should not be worrying about 'modesty'. What sort of insanity is that? Fathers regularly take their daughters swimming. If the set up is a big open room with cubicals around the side then the parent either goes into the cubical with the child or wraps them up in a towel and pops their clothes on top without making any great show. It's not actually terribly difficult, especially with a co-operative child (harder with a wriggly break away toddler).

The child shouldn't be traumatised by the sight of a penis or two, and goodness me the men should certainly not be traumatised by a five year old!

If there are some paedophiles there then really so what? The father is with the child at all times so the opportunity to harm the child is non existent. If they wank about her body then that is disgusting, but no more disgusting than wanking over another child's picture on the internet.

Totally hypocritical and really bullying to force a child to do something that you know she is scared about, especially if you share that fear and wouldn't do it yourself. I'd not let him take her swimming again.

I really feel the nudity and sexualisation issue is besides the point. The child's father should have just gone in the cubicle with her rather than making her change alone if she was uncomfortable with changing alone.

I really cannot believe that it's 'normal' for her to be scared in this situatin.

Ignoring that, there is no evidence she was put in the cubicle for her sake but purely for her fathers.

I also agree with another poster that thread was back to front (someone complaining about boys changing in the female room) the responses would be back to front.

Modesty implies she has to be ashamed and hide her body.

Maybe it is old fashioned.. but I never saw my parents naked. Nor did I ever see them sitting on the toilet either.... and I cannot say it has turned me into a repressed adult, or have hang-ups about naked bodies.

When my dad took me swimming, we got changed in a cubicle. He would dry me, and then send me out while he got changed himself. I never had to see other naked men in there, and would have felt very uncomfortable if I had done.

lisaro In a word - yes. I don't beleive that paying in to an industry that exploits women to be a moral thing to do whether you are a soldier, a bin man or a tightrope artist. But that's a different thread.

Totally agree MillyR, he's a grown man ffs!

This is actually quite important.

By definition, modesty - a sense of shame/propriety about your conduct and appearance - is by definition something internal. Like guilt or happiness. No-one else can be modest for you, any more than they can be guilty on your behalf.

Saying this man can protect his daugher's 'modesty' when she herself has not yet developed a sense of embarrassment at being naked, is really quite seriously creepy. He can't do anything about her 'modesty', it's an inner feeling she may or may not have developed at age 5. To say he can 'protect her modesty' when she is unaware there might be any connotations to her nudity is really shocking to me.

ST, I don't think it is old fashioned. It really doesn't matter if parents are naked in front of their children or not. It isn't a judgement on you that other people were brought up differently.

Did he 'force' her into a cubicle? Did he lock her in? Did she have the option of using the cubicle with the door open.

I don't really understand how he was there and thought she was being naughty and you weren't but you think she was frightened.

If she uses a toilet cubicle then I don't think he is being unreasonable to expect her to use a changing cubicle when asked.

FFS - he won't use the cubicle himself because he too doesn't like small spaces, though. He obviously knows how she feels, doesn't he?

In fact, I wonder if she's frightened of small spaces because her dad doesn't like them and it's made her think they're scary?

LRD, it is not creepy at all. A five year old is usually well aware (and should be too!) that certain parts of her body are private and not for others to see. I certainly was at that age, and so were all of my friends.

I would not want to have been naked in front of other people. I would have been very embarassed.

The term may seem creepy to you, but perhaps that is because you are a lot younger than me, and it is more a generational/regional phrase. It is certainly not creepy.