Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder if its fair that some forces children get fees paid at private schools?

290 replies

scruffybird · 04/12/2011 16:47

A few old friends of mine have their children at good private boarding schools due to ninety percent of the fees being paid for by the forces. I am perfectly aware that I may be being unreasonable for even questioning this, but it just seems wrong?
One of the girls has gone to a school hundreds of miles away from where her family live so that she would be eligible.

OP posts:
Traceymac2 · 04/12/2011 22:34

As an army child I hated being the new girl all of the time. By the time I was 12, when my dad decided not to go for his commission and left the army, I had been to 6 schools. 2 of them were international schools so at least they were with kids in a similar position but the others were normal state schools. It is really hard on the kids and can have a lasting impact, I have always found it hard to settle as an adult because I don't feel like I am from anywhere. My oldest child will start school in 2013 and I am in the lucky position now where we can put down roots, where my dh grew up ( no forces connections) and they will go to school with the same kids throughout their school life. Someone on here has suggested that the kids and the mother should settle in one place so the kids have stability, I would have hated for my family to split up, for the last couple of years that is what we had to do and it was hard on all of us, particularly my mum managing 3 kids on her own. Boarding school is not an easy option either, I definitely wouldn't call it a 'perk', thankfully for me it didn't come to that but if my father had stayed in the army that really was the only option. My dad was lucky as he trained to be an engineer in the army so his skills were transferrable and at the point in his career where he could leave with a pension and a lump sum but not every soldier is in that position and would stand to lose an awful lot if they just walked away.

MrsHeffley · 04/12/2011 22:39

YABVU

I had a forces childhood.It's hard and it's very hard on your education.

I can't even begin to work out how many schools I'd been to before the age of 10.Some ok,some good,a lot shit.You don't get a lot of choice by and large.

Aside from coping with the constant change of school/home,home sickness,missing dad when away,loss of friends and disruption,there is the bullying to cope with,the not really fitting in,the desperately trying to catch up with work previously covered.If you get posted to Scotland or abroad you're all over the place educationwise.

Modern day forces kids have the worry of dads/mums being in dangerous places on top of all that.

My mother desperately didn't want us in boarding school but gave us the option as previously being a teacher(career down the swanee due to constantly moving) she knew the effect a forces life can have on education.We turned it down however the option was a great comfort to her ie the knowledge that if things got really shit a private education was available albeit as the last straw.

I managed to get a degree but I could have done better,gone to a better uni I'm sure if I'd have had a more stable education.Always moving can make you lazy (well it did me) as you always know at the back of your head you'll be moving on one day.I was lucky and bright,not all kids are.

Personally I think school fees are the least that should be offered and there should be an awful lot more support and money provided for kids who live a very disruptive childhood in order for their parents to serve their country.You know the saying about "walk a mile in my shoes",it rather applies to this op.

MrsHeffley · 04/12/2011 22:42

Tracey I'm really strugging with the staying in one place thing.My oldest kids are now 8 and we've been here for nearly 8 years.The one single thing I want to give them is the attendance of just 1 primary school but I'm dying to move.We live in a beautiful place,surrounded by friendly people but it all just makes me feel hemmed in.It doesn't feel natural being in one place for so long.It's wierd.

Traceymac2 · 04/12/2011 22:53

I know exactly what you mean. Even forming friendships, I have a few close friends from college/previous work places but generally I find that I can be so superficial with friendships as I know it won't be lasting because up this stage of my life at 36(!) I haven't wanted to settle anywhere - maybe that's just me though! We are about to move again in the new year to the village where my husband is from and stay put for good for the sake of my dd's, I want them to attend the preschool in that village too, I want them to have the stability and continuity that I didn't have. The thought of this being the last move though is terrifying! I hope I don't get itchy feet!

scaryteacher · 04/12/2011 23:05

'"Buy a house in the area you want to settle, and settle." I quite fancy living in Cornwall, Nikon, but there is not a cat in hell's chance I could practice my profession there. So should I just give up work and go on benefits? (My work is London or Brussels or Paris based.)'

Dh having done the Brussels/Cornwall commute for 2 years, I resigned, rented out the house and moved to Brussels to be with him. Had we stayed commuting, we would have been divorced, as it was undoable for more than 2 years. For those gobbing off - seeing your husband every six weeks is not ideal; acceptable if he is at sea/deployed/down the bunker in Northwood, but not when actually, you could be with him.

There is a termly limit for CEA; if you are lucky, you find state boarding school and you get quite a lot of the fees covered, but you still pay at least 10%. If you choose somewhere more expensive than the termly limit, you pay the excess. The rules are subject to change at any time. Ds is going to a state sixth form with boarding next year as we are due to move in Year 13, and cannot uproot him; especially as we are overseas at present, and would not be able to keep him at his school here when we have moved.

Scruffy shows remarkable ignorance of the rules given that information about the rules is freely available on the internet. As someone who can trump her 30 years of involvement with the Forces, with 45 and counting, she should be ashamed of herself for shit stirring when she knows what CEA is there for.

As for those who say the Forces should be reduced - they are being, substantially, with another couple of tranches of redundancy coming up each year for the next couple of years.

The Forces pay for much of what we supposedly 'get'. Perhaps those interested might look to look at what they are funding for BBC journalists posted in Brussels like Mark Mardell - rent, school fees, a large bill for damage to his rental property after they'd moved out - all out of your licence fee. Those who are Welsh - the Welsh Office pays rent, utilities and school fees abroad. The Forces pay for their accommodation - straight from salary. We do not get the luxury of choosing where we live - it is allocated, and is take it or leave it. We pay for our utilities; we pay more in CTAX for a house abroad than we do for our own place in UK (which is bigger).

In an ideal world, the Forces would post you every 5 years, so you hopefully be able to settle down and schooling would not be an issue. We don't live in that world sadly, and often postings are at very short notice, so how can you arrange a school without an address? Those who are not Forces and post on the education threads about this can testify to the hassle this causes. Try doing it from overseas or hundreds of miles away, and see what school you get allocated.

Not every one claims CEA - when ds was small, we picked up all the fees for prep as he was a day boy, and I didn't move as I worked, so no entitlement. Many suck up the separation as we did for many years to provide stability for their dcs. There does come a point however, when you just can't do it any more and that is where CEA can be useful if your child can deal with boarding. There are on costs for any employer, and if you compare the costs of the training the Forces receive against losing them if you don't pay CEA when necessary, the MoD would be making a loss on much of the investment it has made in submariners, logisticians, weapon engineers, nuclear engineers, bomb disposal experts, engineers (sappers), infantry, fighter pilots, etc. In sheer economics, paying CEA makes sense.

MrsHeffley · 04/12/2011 23:15

God I'm the same Tracey re friendships.I'm so lazy,people do all the running,I never arrange things. I get really twitchy if I get invited to too many things.I'm never the one to suggest coffee or invite people over.I take my hat off to the friends I have as if it was left to me we'd have never become friends.My sister is the opposite she has loads of friends/relationships which she works damn hard at(it's exhausting to watch),it has the same cause but different effect.

I'm trying hard to put more effort in.I'm a good loyal friend to a few ie when the chips are down I'm there but it's the daily stuff I'm crap at.I don't know why. Friendships are really low on my list of priorities way down after kids,job,partner,house etc. I guess it's because I was never in one place long enough to have to work at maintaining long term friendships.I guess I've never really needed friends as I know I can pretty much survive anything. All my kids have best friends and the vulnerability of it scares me.

I'm trying to ring/e-mail,suggest things,turn up for things instead of making excuses a bit more.Ie be a better friend but it does feel very alien and a tad needy.The funny thing is I have about 4 or 5 really good and lovely friends and I've never had problems making friends.I'm very good at socialising actually,can spark up a conversation with anyone(something a forces childhood gives you).

We're thinking of a move to the States for a couple of years and I feel totally awful.Going though a real struggle with guilt re even thinking about moving the kids.No idea why I have the urge.As I said we live in a gorgeous place,kids are in a largely great state school,they're blissfull happy but I just want to hit the open road.Why??? Confused.

Anyway..... I digress.Basically I think people don't look at the long term picture with forces kids and we should be.A happy home is a happy home wherever you are but this nomadic lifestyle can't not have an effect on a kid's long term education.We should be putting money in to make it as less of an impact as possible after all they didn't choose this lifestyle and we all like our forces to be there when we need them.

jcscot · 04/12/2011 23:30

Scary is right (as ever). We've just done the "down the bunker" tour and while it was great for my husband's career, it was hard on the family. one of the few positives has been that the children - three aged five, three and fifteen months - are so used to Daddy being gone that they're taking the op tour in their stride.

I have various reasons for remaining stable while my husband works and it has been the right thing for us so far but who's to say that it will remain so? CEA is part of the package to mitigate the upheaval thst comes with Forces life.

As to those who wonder what makes the Forces different, well there a few occupations where you risk your life for the public good (police or fire service, for example) but the profession of arms is the only one which asks you to risk so much, so often. The military covenant at its most basic is "Blood and Treasure - their blood for our treasure.". In other words, if you expect people to risk life and limb or to kill in the service of their country it is only fair to promise to look after them and their families.

MrsHeffley · 04/12/2011 23:36

Other occupations don't have continual moving as part of the job either.

In fact most private firms acknowledge the inconvenience and upset of just one move with relocation packages.

BlissfulMistletoe · 04/12/2011 23:53

i think the forces is one of those jobs that you can't resign from, i am just glad that there is an option out there to provide children with a decent education.

crystalglasses · 05/12/2011 00:16

Well this is the first time I've heard that assisted boarding places for services children could be regarded a perk. I went to 9 schools before ending up at boarding school while my parents moved around the world. The standard of education in some of the schools I attended was abysmal and when I eventually went to boarding school I was put in a class one year lower than my age group, and stayed one year below for the rest of my school life. However it gave me emotional stability and lifelong friendships and the opportunity to get a decent british education.

crystalglasses · 05/12/2011 00:22

Moving schools in this country is bad enough but it doesn't compare to regulalry moving school between different countries where you have to cope with different cutures, languages, standards of education, making new friendships and leaving old ones behind. I believe most of my feelings of insecurity and fairly low self esteem stem from this, plus my desparate need to prove myself academically

nikon1968 · 05/12/2011 07:32

Perhaps those interested might look to look at what they are funding for BBC journalists posted in Brussels like Mark Mardell - rent, school fees, a large bill for damage to his rental property after they'd moved out - all out of your licence fee.

What a pathetic argument, I choose to pay my tv licence, last time I looked it was optional.

I do not choose where mt taxes go but oh boy I wish I did.
.................................................................................................................
This is another 'round in circles' thread.

I think if you go in the forces you should know what to expect regarding your whole term, for some that enter as a single person maybe they should be made to read this thread before signing up.

For women entering a relationship with someone in the forces they too should read this thread.

Unfortunately any children produce by said relationship just has to ''suck it up and do as they are told I suppose''

acumenin · 05/12/2011 08:12

YABU.

Seriously. It's just the wrong, and massively destructive approach, to think that it's not fair that villager 16 has got something, let's take it OFF him. Talk about undercutting! Not all soldiers are rolling in it, you know. They're mostly norms, like us.

If you want to get your kids into boarding school on the cheap, there are ways you can do that without joining the army. Teach them to bloody sing or crack a book, get a PGCE and get a job at one...

I don't agree with the Middle Eastern wars, but I don't think that's got owt to do with school fees? There are other small populations of children that are placed in boarding schools as well, for similar reasons of (fairly cost effective) stability.

midori1999 · 05/12/2011 08:19

nikon, you are woefully ignorant of forces life. Yes, some parents (forces and otherwise) put themselves and their DHs before their children and some sent them off packing to boarding school when they are (IMO) too young or really don't want to go.

However, the majority of people are doing what they consider best for their whole family and lots of the DC want to board and actively look forward to it. Many parents don't choose to board their DC until secondary education either.

I used to be someone who didn't understand why anyone would have DC to send them off to boarding school. Yet, I married someone in the forces and when at our first posting weekly boarding became an option, my oldest son chose it. It offered him a lot of opportunities he wouldn't have otherwise had and it's lucky we chose it as it has meant he can now board full time and hasn't had to move halfway through his GCSE's. Of course, he misses us, we miss him, but I also have a disabled child, which does mean my DC miss out on things they otherwise wouldn't and although I hate to say that, boarding has given my son some extra freedoms and the chance to take part in things he otherwise wouldn't have been able to.

Boarding would never be my first choice, but I have to consider all of my DC and what is best for all of them as well as our family as a whole. I suspect it is the same for most people.

SantasCave · 05/12/2011 08:58

Um, the TV License is not optional, unless you do not own a tv or radio. Hence why they run all the adverts saying you will be fined if you're caught without one Hmm

scaryteacher · 05/12/2011 09:09

Paying your TV licence isn't optional; you will be prosecuted if you don't.

'I think if you go in the forces you should know what to expect regarding your whole term, for some that enter as a single person maybe they should be made to read this thread before signing up.

For women entering a relationship with someone in the forces they too should read this thread.

Unfortunately any children produce by said relationship just has to ''suck it up and do as they are told I suppose'''

I don't think you do actually think at all; you just want to trot out your anti military crap, without knowing what you are talking about. I'm a Forces brat married to another Forces brat who is in the Forces, so we both knew the score when we got married. Are you really suggesting that those in the Forces should not get married and have kids? That is discrimination, and I thought that MN didn't approve of discrimination, or does that only apply to race and religion? FCO personnel get help with schooling for their children as well. MPs get help with second homes (when they could live in something approximating to Forces mess accommodation) and cost far more than CEA, but you want to remove the right to a family life from those who are in HM Forces? Nice.

Thankfully, there are people who realise that CEA is at times necessary for Forces families, and don't just expect the kids 'to suck it up'. I don't like the fact that my tax goes on certain things, but it does, and just as I have to 'suck that up', you Nikon, have to 'suck up' the fact that in some cases, the MoD will pay CEA for Forces kids.Smile

As I said, put the CEA cost against the cost of training (say a nuclear submariner or fast jet pilot, you are talking millions) and then losing that person for the sake of paying say £60k over 4 years (KS4 and 5) for boarding fees, PLUS the fact you would have to recruit and train someone else. The CEA option is cheaper, and is a business oncost.

SantasCave · 05/12/2011 09:28
wordfactory · 05/12/2011 09:30

I think the very least we can do for memebers of the armed forces is to provide their DC with a boarding school so that the parent can go and risk their lives for their country, knowing at least that their DC has stability.

Also, as has been said, maany jobs that require a lot of travel provide the same condition. The UN also pays towards schooling for certain memebers DC.

Whatmeworry · 05/12/2011 09:43

Good news: your employer will pay for your kids' boarding school education
Bad News: your job entails want to kill you, and the pay is poor.

Fair exchange?

MrsHeffley · 05/12/2011 10:00

My dad went into the RAF after uni.He worked in a highly specialised field as an engineer on Shackltons and Nimrods. He had a highly successful career and worked hard for his country earning an MBE in the process.There was no civvy job for him as his specialism was military aircraft which this country actually needed at the time.So unless he wanted to go child free and make my mother go child free alongside giving up a career she loved to live in the arse end of nowhere continuously on her own for months on end he had no choice but to move his children from sometimes posting to posting,sometimes as little as 6 months.

As a parent I have no bitterness towards either parent as you do the job you're qualified to do to pay the bills. The upset and guilt however my parents felt is something people just don't understand.How would you like to continuously come home and tell your settled happy kids that yet again they were to be moved and dumped on yet another shit school front step with nothing but a big brown envelope of introduction.

At one point I went from a primary school in Scotland midyear to a city comp in England half way through the year(different cross over age in Scotland to England).I had to sit summer exams in subjects I'd never done before like French,physics etc.As a bright child who had always worked hard to catch up getting 2% in exams through no fault of my own was devastating.

Sorry I don't think enough is being done to support these kids. Every kid has a right to a good education and I personally think there should be money spent on providing tutors in schools that takes forces kids. Kids from a new posting should have several hours extra tutoring a week and somebody to liase between the old school and the new to ensure said kids are getting all the support they need.

Maybe things have changed from when I was little and this happens,I sincerely hope so as kids don't choose to be moved around,their parents don't either.This isn't a perk for adults it's a right for kids.

LePruneDeMaTante · 05/12/2011 10:08

I'm another one who was disrupted a lot because of forces moves. There are no redeeming features for a kid - you lose your friends, you never see them again for the most part! That is really hard at 6,7,8,9 years old. Dad came out of that environment so we could have a more stable education. (Nimrods figured at his workplace too...that was one SHIT school there.)

MrsHeffley · 05/12/2011 10:15

It's sad LePrune I have absolutely no contact with any RAF kids,some were really lovely.I also only know 2 girls who went to boarding school.One was having problems at school catching up so I think she had no choice but to go.Very few parents would ever choose to send their kids away.

LePruneDeMaTante · 05/12/2011 10:20

I have contact with one friend - my best pal when I was 8/9. We've not seen each other since we were 9. I mean, on the one hand you learn how to 'start again', many times over; but on the other, there's a lot of missing people, and friendships never develop for long, and occasionally have been far too easily shed. It's not the best.

knittedbreast · 05/12/2011 10:23

I dont think fees should be paid if you go into the armed forces, you know whats expected of you and what life will be like and you made the choice to go into it.

I was talking to my next door neighbour the other day, he was in the war (old guy) and is outraged that soldiors get compensation as they already know the risks, i cant imagine what he would have said about school fees!

GingerWrath · 05/12/2011 10:38

The person who joins knows, the person who marries them knows. The children that come along can't choose the career that their parent/s have.

Continuity of education ensures that children who just happen to have parent/s in the Armed Forces can reach their full potential in their education and are not a burden on 'tax payers' when they reach an employable age. It's an investment in their future and these children are in no way responsible for their parents' careers.