AIBU or is DH?

[OhThisIsJustGrape]

quick back story: DH doesn't cook. Ever. Claims he can't, although has managed to knock himself up steak and oven chips on occasion and can boil pasta (after I had to tell him the instructions are on the back of the packet).

In almost 16 years of us being together he has never made me anything more substantial to eat than toast.

His main excuse is always that even if he did cook it, I wouldn't eat it due to me not trusting him to wash his hands/cook food thoroughly etc. Tbh I do have a bit of a germ phobia but I know that if I thought for one second that he followed basic food hygiene then there wouldn't be an issue. To me, he is using it as a get out cause.

I'm a SAHM, 4 DCs of which 2 are preschoolers. I have tea on the table for him every night without fail mostly. Often it's cooked from scratch. I've come to hate cooking over recent years, so much so that I rarely even eat what has been cooked as I now have zero interest in food. DH works very long hours, only ever has sundays off and the only contribution to the household tasks is putting the rubbish out when he remembers and putting DD2 to bed each night. Kids are bathed before hr comes home and I often iron in the evenings. My weekends are spent catching up on cleaning as he is here to occupy the kids so I make the most of it. I hate that my weekends are always full of chores whilst he gets to play with the DCs, I feel as though I never get a day off.

Anyway, after the DH non-cooking thread the other day in which lots of posters suggested buying the DH a cookery book I thought I'd try that idea. I just said to DH that I was going to buy him a cookery book for Christmas so he could learn to cook, I quickly added that I would only expect him to cook on weekends.

His immediate reply was 'fuck off am I working 60 hours a week to then spend all weekend cooking'.

I am honestly shocked. I told him that it was one of the worst things he has said to me, I feel he has totally devalued everything I do, 7 days a week may I add.

Oh god, I'm over reacting aren't I? I feel really shit because he doesn't seem to accept that I work too. He's an excellent dad but I get no help in the house whatsoever and I'm sick of it. This remark is just the final nail in the coffin I guess.

AIBU?

I posted once ages ago but will say it again. YANBU. Definitely not.

I also live with a bloke who doesn't notice mess - I am able to discuss it with him but TBH I might as well save my breath - he picks up after himself for a few days and then forgets. So, I put in place some simple rules.

I don't wash stuff if it's not in the dirty clothes basket.

If he expects clean clothes for work, he needs to check they've been done - they might have been if the washing basket looked full, but not necessarily.
I have a spare clothes basket - clean clothes are left in that not put away. That way I don't feel resentful for spending ages tidying them away, but they are not heaped everywhere, getting wrinkled or making a mess.
Is it practicable to give him one of the bathrooms, supply it with cleaning stuff and then for you to keep out of it? Let him tidy it up, swap towels etc. Would he go with that or would he make a mess of one bathroom and then simply move elsewhere?
I have a couple of drawers designated 'DH'. If I am doing a quick tidy, everything that is his gets chucked in there. If he wants it, he knows roughly where it is.

Cooking is our big downfall too, because I hate it. I hate planning it, bydgeting and shopping for it, and cooking itself. But so does he! And because he works, it does tend to fall on me. I haven't really solved this either.

In theory, I would like to know that he had cleaned the bathroom, or something similar, so that when I came out of the kitchen we could enjoy our dc together, but it rarely works. I am however gradually having success with getting him to look after himself more and more, so at least I don't feel like there's an extra child in the house (much resentment when we start heading down this road so I work hard to try and avoid it).

If you find a solution to the cooking thing, let me know.

Before having DC4 we had plans approved for an extension which wouldve given us the extra bedroom we need. Unfortunately the recession hit and we've had to shelve those plans for the time being. Hopefully we can start building within the next year or so.

As to why I continued to have children with him? Before having DC4, life seemed so much easier. I was coping fine, DC3 was(and still is) a very easy child, I guess DC4 tipped the balance somewhat and the workload for me seems to have doubled. He has been a difficult, clingy child and I've also had PND. DH did as little then as he does now but I seemed to be able to pick up the slack easier.

Now I could really do with some help but it's not forthcoming. After today's outburst I know why - he doesn't see why he should :(

It's good that you're seeing a friend tomorrow, will you tell her how you feel, or will you pretend to be 'fine'? If she's a good friend it might feel good to confide a bit. If she knows you are down she may phone you more or arrange to meet up regularly.

YANBU OP.

There are some helpful posts about how to make life easier but they do not get to the bottom of it - the point is, he is being unreasonable. He might hate cooking - well so do you, and you get to do it every single bloody meal and don't get one day off a week.

It struck me how very ready you are to put yourself down on this thread - lots of 'I'm probably being unreasonable'/'I'm probably wrong' type stuff. You married young; how old is your dh?

It seems to me you feel trapped and you have grown into a role which you can see quite clearly is unfair.

Something needs to change, probably something quite drastic; if you stick with this relationship, there needs to be a fundamental shift in how he sees your role. And a fundamental shift in power, because it does not sound like an equal relationship (eg he wouldn't be happy with too many readymeals).

grape It sounds like you are doing so much for everyone else you have lost your own identity.

Do start leaving things as they are for DH to sort out, he is a grown up he can pick up after himself. You are his wife, not his slave and from the sounds of your posts you are organised and not an obsessive cleaner so batch cooking ain't going to solve this (although I am a firm believer in the power of batch cooking!). I don't have 4 dc's but I do have 5 siblings and I remember when we were little it was impossible for one parent to manage everything, the sheer logistics of moving people around became impossible! So mum got an aupair because Dad was self employed and very busy, and Dad shared the cooking in the evenings. He worked longer hours than your DH too.

You work full time too, just because you are at home with the kids doesn't mean you are not working and like anyone that does any job you need time off and that is not unreasonable.

PS get the kids to help - I was making tea and washing the floor aged 8 - if you are part of the household you can contribute - it is not child labour it is about learning responsibility.

I forgot to write my conclusion - your DH can either pay for some help for you, or he can pitch in.
YANBU

DH is 3 years older than me. We did get together very young.

We did split briefly about 7 years ago, mainly due to my resentment towards the business, his lack of time for us etc. He also resented me for not helping out with the admin side of things at work but I was working 30 hours a week myself and although only had the two children I just didn't feel able to take on any more.

We were only apart for a month but some awful things happened during, and a result of, that time and I will never go back to that, however bad things get. I won't put the children through it again either.

It's been a constant theme throughout our marriage - he works too much/too hard, I want him at home more and to do more whilst here. I don't know how we'll ever rectify it tbh.

He loves his work, Grape.

Does he not want you to love how you spend your time as well?

He has GOT to step up to the plate then.

My dad worked stupid hours on his own business but, just like you want from your dh, he did dinner once a week. It was a pretty feeble dinner - soup on a Sunday night after we'd had a big roast cooked by my mum at lunchtime - but the main point was that it was one evening my mum didn't have to think about meals.

My dh works reasonable hours and does a decent share of the housework, but that's not the point - the point is, you really really want an evening off, it is within his power to do this at minimal cost to himself (one meal a week ffs!), and he is refusing. I don't know how you get through to him when he clearly has no clue about the work you are doing.

I do think you need some household help you physically can't do it all. My DH works 40 hrs a week but he is cleaning obsessed. I am a SAHM washing and I do ALL the cooking ALL the childcare and some of the washing and he does MOST of the cleaning vaccuming, dusting, folding the washing, cleaning the bathroom and kitchen, the latter two taking him hours he likes to do a perfect sparkling job. So whereas most husbands like to occupy the kids he prefers to clean. He works lates so he gets up in the morning and gets the house set up for me for the day. I often moan about the lack of childcare support I get but I do get plenty of household help!!! This is all his choice.

In my opinion I think as long as he is entertaining the kids whilst you cook, clean etc he is doing something to help. My DH will choose chores over entertaining the kids any day!!! I have a friend who moans all her DH does of a weekend is play with the kids and she cooks, cleans and irons of a weekend. My DH cooks, cleans and tidy and I entertain the kids of a weekend. I often wish for a child free day to do the chores and she wishes for her DH to do the chores and she have the kids!!!

But it sounds like you would like a break from the chores like I would like a break from the kids but if your DH is anything like mine they know what they want and stick to it. Maybe try talking to your DH and suggesting a bit of help just half hour of a weekend wouldn't go a miss. I was on child burnout and begged my DH to get the children up in the mornings to give me a lie instead of doing the morning chores. He wasn't happy but is getting used to it now, the kids actually know who he is. But he still hates going to work without having folded the washing or left the washing up!!!

Hope you get it sorted coz you certainly sound like you need a break!! x

That's a very negative reason to stay in your marriage - because of bad things happening if you split.

The reason to stay in a relationship is because good things come out of it for you.

'Damn Cold Night' Avril Lavigne

Oops wrong thread, silly iPad!

So you've decided that putting up with his workaholic tendency is better than going through a split ever again? Remember you can change things without splitting up.

Tell him you've been thinking a lot since he made that comment, and that you'd like to talk about how you both feel and what changes you could make so that you get more time together.

Also if he knows you'll never leave he has zero incentive to change. He didn't change when you split up, so what would his motivation for doing anything differently be now?

Do you really want to be cleaning up after him when you're 65? You know some women who are very bitter later in life? That's because they've spent a lifetime doing what you do for your husband. It is not a woman's lot in life to be a man's servant, and the reason you feel resentful is because deep down you know it, however much work you have tried to take on your shoulders uncomplainingly.

Just skim read your posts again and I feel sad on your behalf OP. Having experienced PND myself I can't imagine how I'd feel if my partner offered no support during it and made out that was how he felt all the time. You become the most super efficient cleaner in the world and it wouldn't change the fact that he just doesn't offer you support when you're struggling or suffering. That's the real problem.

I haven't spoken to him all evening.

I don't have the energy to have it out with him tonight, this happens all the time so things just get brushed under the carpet and we carry on as before.

Ah well. Thanks for the advice and listening ears ladies :)

No problem, keep posting, but only if it helps. Enjoy tomorrow, you deserve to enjoy yourself.

lol at fanjo

OP there is obviously more underlying problems than him not pulling his weight domestic wise thats obvious. you need to talk. and get kids more involved in housework.and make time for yourself to meet friends. only you can make that happen. get out there get support and have a talk with him. all this cooking cleaning lark is only the tip of the iceberg i feel.

good luck x

I've actually felt a bit panicky while reading your thread OP. It has been dominated by in-fighting about the perceived roles of men & women in the home - but somehow you have kept a level head and continued to post with clarity. It has been hard to hear your voice sometimes amidst all the clamour.

I particularly felt panicky when you said about the horrible consequences of you leaving - then you must feel trapped with no way out, dependent on a man who sounds quite neanderthal tbh. He doesn't see, from what you've said, that anything to do with the home is his responsibility - and probably thinks that putting beer cans on the side is 'helping out'. He probably thinks all that toil you do gets done by magic.

He also sounds like a workaholic. Which is why you left him and the problem has not gone away, save (probably) an extra week's holiday. A week is crap OP. You'd be better off a single parent (logistically) because the weight of carrying him is what is crushing you. Plus today you've finally realised he doesn't value what you do. Presenting him with the idea of the cook book sounds to me that you have both lost the art of communicating and this was your desperate shot across the gap between you. You very probably knew what his response would be but maybe you hoped for a miracle? Maybe you subconsciously set him up, knowing what the answer would be.

I cook every night for foreign students and it gets very tiring - not the actual cooking so much but having to plan it and all the wretched work that goes on aro9und it (they are paying guests so it has to be a certain standard). I am a dab hand at buying ready meals and serving them up for all the world like I'd cooked it myself (serving dishes, basically) and they are none the wiser. But that's not the point: you say he would be 'less than impressed' if you served up ready meals more than once in a while. So you're his domestic servant then and he expects a 5* service. You've picked up the flak before because you could do it but now you can't, it's all got too much (totally understandably). You have an older child with a disability, a younger child who is clingy and very hard work, giving you and DH barely a moment together. His comments about your PND would not have helped, to put it mildly. ()

Plus you've had the money worries which have piled on even more pressure, probably justifying to him why he should spend every waking moment at work. And now you have stopped eating. That's worrying grape - it suggests a deep disquiet and that the gauge is tipping into the danger zone, warning lights flashing.

I was going to suggest couples counselling but I can already bet that he would flatly refuse, the big he-man that he is (?). IN that case, go yourself. You can get counselling very cheap through womens orgs who also offer childcare. Things are way out of balance here and you must get a space to clear your head, get some support to clarify the issues you are facing. I find that when things are in the danger zone I want to have a good time with my friends and not talk about troubles and angst - plus it's all so deep and entrenched that we'd be there for hours going over it. Better to crack through it with a counsellor who will give you the space to breath , to find out who you are and what you want. It will give you the head-space to be able to tackle your DH about his brutish view of marriage and, more importantly, your role within it.

One last thing: we are not designed to be going 24/7 - you must have at least a day off. I know that is at the crux of why you have posted but somehow, by hook or by crook, choose a day a week in which you do very little, not just physically but mentally too. I hope you can push aside space to achieve that.

Sorry for long post.

Lovely post, springdaffs. Reading that felt like slipping into a warm bath and I'm not even in the OP's situation.

OP I think you need to go back through your posts and make a bullet-point list of things to discuss with him. The stuff about needing him to pull his weight on the weekend, that you work 7 days a week nonstop, that you feel he devalues the work you put into the family and gives himself more time off than you get.

Tell him that things need to change and you'd prefer that the two of you worked it out together how that's going to happen, otherwise you're just going to start changing things and he probably won't like it. If he doesn't even want to listen to you, then ask him if he even wants to stay married. Because frankly any husband that won't even have a rational conversation with his wife about problems she's having and how they can be fixed is probably not a keeper.

You really need to ask yourself if this is where you want to be, now, in 5 years, in 10 years when you're back at work and STILL doing everything at home. In 20 years when the kids have left home and your're STILL doing everything for him even though it's just the two of you.

Your choices are basically this:

1. keep on as you're going til you eventually lose it.
2. leave him.
3. stay with him but change things - this requires a VERY tough outlook and ability to stick to your guns. You decide what needs changing to make your life easier, then do it. If that means not cooking for him, then do it. If that means going out the door on Saturday morning and leaving him with all 4 kids til you come back Saturday evening, then do it. Etc. etc.

But you have to do something. Whatever you went through before when you were briefly split up, can it be so bad that you'd never consider it again? If you're too afraid to leave him, then he holds all the control here as he has no reason to change his behaviour - as you'll never carry out your threat.

But if you believe that if you had to leave him and survive without him, you could, then your mental state is a lot stronger in terms of carrying through what you need to do to make things better for yourself. Unfortunately, as long as you truly believe you're trapped, though, you are.

It was lovely , as was your response, AyeSmagic.

OP you have four children and have to do dog-walking so I'm assuming you have a dog or two?

Was that your idea? Only DH started on about that when DS was due to start school citing wonderful things about having dogs around autistic children, especially this large-breed type which likes to jump into ponds and hunt ducks. For novice dog-owners.

I wouldn't have a BAR of it unless he did ALL the walking, the feeding, the training, the grooming, the vets visits, hoovered the entire house every day and cleaned up every single mess. I have never seen anyone reject an idea quite so quickly.

Anyway. That would explain the hoovering every day for the couple of posters who asked and you should know by now that YANBU

OP, you are getting a tough time on here and I really feel for you.

It sounds like your DH works hard, but that some of it is his choice. I also feel that in most cases, both partners in a relationship should do some work around the home. Sure, a SAHM may have to do the most, but if they do it all it means they never get time off, which just seems unfair to me. Ideally both partners should get similar amounts of leisure time.

It was revealing to me when you spoke about not being able to pursue your own dreams - surely (to the naysayers), this just proves that your husband is being unreasonable. It's one thing to say you don't work, so have to do it all, but you don't even have the option of working without it having to fit to his life, rather than to the life you are both sharing. This says to me you're his slave to fit in with his life, rather than simply he's busy so it's nice if you can do a bit more.

This resentment you feel will just grow if you do nothing about it. I would start by telling him you need to feel valued - perhaps ask him if he realises that without you staying at home he couldn't go to work. It might not solve much, but you have to start taking action somehow.

some lovely posts on here more recently.

hope you're calming down and can get a decent night's sleep OP. it was me saying about the wake up moment. i'd honestly say give yourself some time now. mull, digest, feel, think but try and do it gently (so as not to do your own head in chases itself in circles). you're coming up from the underwater fog. let it work itself out in your head and your heart organically now - don't squish it down or trying burst it all out.

give yourself some time. if nothing else find a way to climb in the bath for half an hour of an evening, every evening and lock the door and have that bit of time for you and reconnecting with yourself.

i think that's the first step tbh - letting yourself think and feel and question and providing even a tiny daily slot of space to yourself.

i hope you sleep well x