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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to get the woman to remove her shoes or is she BU by being rude?

503 replies

teddiegoestopeckham · 29/11/2011 20:35

my BIL came over today with his new partner to meet me and DH (his brother). They came over for a few hours for a late lunch/tea.

Anyway i open the door for them (BIL already holding his coat :) ). anyway all the hellos, hugs, come in etc.
BIL automatically takes his shoes off and puts some of the slippers we have out for guests.
She looks very shocked by this and doesn't make a move to either take off her shoes or even ask if i would like her to take her shoes off (i am barefoot)

Anyway when I realise that she isn't taking her shoes off and asks her nicely and politely if she would mind taking her shoes off and if she would like we have slippers for guests (we have a pile like the ones BIL put on and they are very obvious)

BIL looks a bit awkward at his point and then she says' 'no, thank you' and walks though.

I was just stunned and so was BIL obviously.

But it would have been rude to say anything so i just let her carry on. And told DH when he came in about 15mins later not to say anything.

I'm japanese - and to me leaving your shoes on when entering someones house is a no no. I have managed over the years to be okay if someone just walks in to pick something up or drop something off. but if someone is coming in properly. They take their shoes off.

Even forgetting the culture I and this comes from - sure it is rude to reply like that when you are a guest into someones home?

or AIBU in asking people to remove their shoes upon entering??
I'm doubting both now...

OP posts:

JamieComeHome · 30/11/2011 18:48

I don't know how me, my children and everyone I know has managed to survive with all these shoes around

kritur · 30/11/2011 18:49

I have to say that in my culture (that is working class Yorkshire background...) it is rude to ask someone to take off their shoes as my mum would say it makes you look 'common'. It shows you can't afford to have your carpets cleaned or are too lazy to do it yourself and no working class person would ever want to admit that!

LondonMumsie · 30/11/2011 18:56

I am with discrete, except that I think people could maybe just have a bit of imagination and accept that it is hugely rude to a Japanese person and act accordingly. I am finding all this "eeeew", "oh you are a bit precious", "I'd feel uncomfortable so that's rude" stuff is verging toward racial/cultural intolerance.

JamieComeHome · 30/11/2011 18:58

London - many of us have said we'd comply, but find it uncomfortable

edam · 30/11/2011 18:59

Maybe the visitor didn't know about Japanese culture. Maybe she thought the OP was being rude. Maybe she has an equally strong culture of her own, as kritur does.

Don't understand why otherwise apparently normal people get so darn fussy about shoes myself. Am prepared to believe Japanese people Have Their Reasons but otherwise, fgs, no-one has ever died from germs brought in on the sole of someone's shoe. As a host it is your duty to make your guests comfortable, not start imposing fussy little rules on them. I don't like being made to take my shoes off as if I'm an inattentive 6yo who might have walked in dogshit without noticing but I usually put up with it. The one time it really hacked me off was at a house where the carpet clearly hadn't been hoovered for about a week - covered in ruddy crumbs and they had the cheek to object to my shoes!

JamieComeHome · 30/11/2011 19:00

exactly

SauvignonBlanche · 30/11/2011 19:01

YABU to make your guest uncomfortable.
BIL WBU not to explain to her what it meant to you.

oldenglishspangles · 30/11/2011 19:02

knol.google.com/k/shoes-off-at-the-door

bibbitybobbitybloodyaxe · 30/11/2011 19:02

Crikey, teddy, you've hit the jackpot here with a Mumsnet "classic" aibu, and you only joined yesterday?

lljkk · 30/11/2011 19:03

I don't think OP was rude, she only asked the once and doesn't sound like the girlfriend picked up on the tense vibes after saying no!

fuzzypicklehead · 30/11/2011 19:05

I'm actually loving the comfy guest slipper idea. I could see implementing this in my own house with some easily washable slippers and then just laundering them each week. (Maybe I'll buy the slipper genie type, so that guests are actually polishing my floor as they walk around!)

PoppadumPreach · 30/11/2011 19:07

YANBU at all!

Japanese or not it was your house! she didn't have to wear the slippers but she definitely should have removed her shoes!

i lived in Japan for a bit so i know how rude that must have been. i wish more people in Britain adopted this part of Japanese culture - it's disgusting wearing outdoor shoes inside!!

LondonMumsie · 30/11/2011 19:14

OK, in Japan the houses were traditionally very, very small. The rooms had to have multiple uses. People slept on the floor on mats, sat on the floor, had very low tables at floor level that they sit on the floor to eat at - it is not like this in all houses these days (or in all rooms), but it still is in very many. In the old days, floors were covered in tatami mats which can be damaged by shoes. In these rooms in a modern Japanese house, not even slippers are worn.

For at least 1000 years, it has been the tradition to take shoes off before going indoors. Korea is the same.

So really, wearing your shoes indoors can be literally wearing them on the bed or on the dining chair. Not only not nice but also totally outside anyone's experience. No-one would ever, ever see it. No-one would ever, ever do it. I really don't think it is comparable to "oh but I might have holey socks" or "oh it wouldn't go with my outfit". It is at a picking-your-nose-at-the-table-and-then-eating-it-with-relish level of rudeness - if you know that this is the culture.

OP's SIL we can assume did not know. So OP has asked, quite politely, whether she was right to ask. It is the replies which imply that she was not in the right to ask that sadden me. This is her house, her culture, and frankly not that big a request.

MildlyNarkyPuffin · 30/11/2011 19:15

Really? 17 pages - I know, but my creaking laptop gets upset if I try to use the all on one page format - on removing shoes.

NewsClippings · 30/11/2011 19:16

What happens when Japanese people visit an English person living in Japan?

exoticfruits · 30/11/2011 19:17

You asked her if she would mind and she obviously would. I am too polite and suffer freezing feet. One thing that I am absolutely sure of is that I wouldn't wear any house slippers-that really is vile!

mumeeee · 30/11/2011 19:19

We always take our shoes off in our house but I wouldn't expect an adult guest to do the same. I also wouldn't want to wear another persons slippers. Yes I know they were for guests but they would have been worm by others.

exoticfruits · 30/11/2011 19:19

slippers definatly aren't skanky - what a thought. they are kept in individual clear palstic bags in a pile and washed every time they are used even if it was only for a minute. I also make sure to replace them at intervals

I really don't care, it is still horrible!

NewsClippings · 30/11/2011 19:20

it's disgusting wearing outdoor shoes inside!!

Are you serious? Surely if there was any real hygiene issue none of us would still be here!

You're only going to find the same germs which you encounter when you're on the bus, in shops etc. Someone puts their handbag on the floor and then on the bus seat which you then sit on and touch - highly likely that no harm comes to you.

Humans are not designed to live in a sterile bubble.

exoticfruits · 30/11/2011 19:20

If people volunteer I let them but I wouldn't be rude enough to ask.

LondonMumsie · 30/11/2011 19:21

Well the only foreign people I knew in Japan kept to Japanese customs in this regard. Sometimes because they liked to, sometimes because their tenancy agreements required it (e.g. tatami mats which get damaged). Didn't know that many foreigners.

There is no requirement to wear slippers that I know of, that is a courtesy to offer them. I never did as for some reason I am completely inept and cannot keep them on my feet.

discrete · 30/11/2011 19:22

Newsclippings - everyone in japan would automatically remove shoes. Everyone. It would not cross anyone's mind to do otherwise.

If the English people were renting in Japan it would probably be a clause of their contract that shoes must not be worn inside - if it wasn't it would be because it is taken for granted that they will not.

Original poster

teddiegoestopeckham · 30/11/2011 19:23

Maybe this woman didn't know about this part of my culture - but from my experience even if someonme doesnt know anything about my culture they know about the no shoes things inside. And it is obvious I am Japanese (sure BIL least told her that - as in what are their names... oh thats unusual is it.... yes she is Japanese....ohh thats nice) but even not it is relatively obvious
She didn't have to wear slippers.. they were optional - I was barefoot and BIL was wearing them.
Okay she might not have none they were clean but do you put a pile of dirty slippers in individual clear plastic bags? surely that gives idea that they are clean?
I don't see any of it as 'neurotic' - at all

I was insulted by it (the level of which most of you will not understand) - both by her not taking her shoes off and then the 'no' but was so stunded and shocked (it has never happened before) and also was first time meeting her could and didnt say anything - BIL so much wanted it to be a success. but will admit i was distant for the whole meeting.

Did see BIL today though and he couldn't have appologised more for it. But no word on what she thought/said though on us/me/DH - will have to wait to properly speak to BIL to know that :)

OP posts:

JinglePosyPerkin · 30/11/2011 19:23

Your house. Your rules. Perfectly reasonable request. If the slippers bothered her then she could go barefoot. I would never be that rude.

NewsClippings · 30/11/2011 19:28

So discrete if an English person living in Japan requested visitors kept their shoes on in their home, the visitor would be likely to refuse?

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