To just give up now?

[Turtleshark]

With my 11 year old DS that is.

I feel like I can't take any more. It sounds terrible but I've been dreaming of the day he leaves home. He wakes up, starts shouting at everyone in the house, refuses to get dressed, wash, eat, clean teeth, put on suncream and be ready on time.

Then he comes home from school, shouts some more, hits his sisters if they come near him, refuses to do homework, complains about dinner, refuses to take a shower and go to bed.

We have tried everything. We are not unreasonable people - we are fairly strict but flexible but nothing works. I have stayed calm, shouted, used reward charts, everything. He has pretty much always been like this.

Now I've had enough. We are all sick of his temper and constant negativity and the house has a better atmosphere when he's not there. I can't be bothered fighting and I've told him it's HIS responsibility to be ready for school, do homework, put on suncream etc. He knows about skin cancer and says he doesn't care.

AIBU?

Anyone else with a child like this and what did you do?

Sounds like he is fundamentally really unhappy and cross about soemthing? happy kids and grown ups in fact dont constantly behave like this?

Sun cream? Where abouts are you? Have you mentioned his behaviour to your gp? How is he at school!

Yes we are not in UK, we are overseas for DH's work, so all kids are supposed to go to school ith suncream and insect repellent. There is a real risk of burning and getting malaria and other horrible things.

At school his behaviour is ok but he doesn't engage at all with the curriculum. But it's a very small school in the arse end of nowhere so not sure how he'd do in a "normal" environment.

He doesn't seem happy, you're right. It's not a nice way to live, always trying to fight everyone.

Oh, and no GP here. We would have to fly somewhere for that.

Have you tried "brutal honesty"? Sit him down and say to him "look, you're too big to be treated like a baby with time out and suchlike, but we can't go on like this. You know we have to stay here until with Dad's work, because that's what pays the bills and feeds and clothes us all. You obviously don't like it here, but we cannot change facts, we have to stay for now. Is there anything we can do to make it better, or at least make it so that we aren't alwys fighting with you over stupid petty things?" and then say that you want him to think it over, and you and his Dad will listen to what he has to say at a certain time. Give him your undivided attention at that time, and (hopefully) he might engage in some discussion, or at least give you a clue where to start to put things right. Even just the fact that you and his Dad are listening to him might help. You can but hope...

It's not being overseas that's the problem, he's always been like this. If anything it's easier for him - small school etc.

If I talk to him when he's calm, he nods and says ok in a "can we stop now?" kind of way, but nothing changes.

I don't always manage to stay calm. I have even smacked him a couple of times in the past when he has really pushed me to the limit. Not proud of that.

You need to listen to him. Ask him something, and then seriously zip it while he manages to get his thoughts together and articulates them. This will take a long time and a lot of your silence.

You then must try not to talk him out of his feelings! They need to be acknowledged and responded to, calmly and lovingly.

I am prepared to do that Line Runner. It just seems like nothing comes out of his mouth other than complaints and shouting at people when things are not 100% the way he wants.

What is he complaining about? Big things or little ones?

Mainly little things, but then it escalates into "I have such a bad life" or "I knew this would be the worst day of my life". This morning the first outburst was because dd's toast touched his as it came out of the toaster (he can't stand that particular sister, the other one he doesn't mind quite as much), and then because he couldn't find the shirt he wanted to wear. He was screaming down the stairs "WHERE'S MY SHIRT? WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH MY SHIRT?" The shirt had just been washed and ironed but was not yet back in his cupboard. I said to him "if you could just calm down and ask nicely I could tell you where it is", and he shouted back "I DID ASKED NICELY! i ASKED NICELY 3 TIMES AND THEN I HAD TO BE STRICT WITH YOU!" I told him not to shout at me and walked away, and it continued like that....

He often says he's asked nicely/been polite when he hasn't. He never admits to anything he's done.

Its a hard one as I dont think anyone really knows how they would deal with something like this untill they are in the situation themselves. Is he into computer games etc, have you tried taking away his "toys" and he can get them back with good behaviour?
Sorry I have two toddlers so teenage tanturms is something i have to look forward to!!

Is it REALLY ok at school? Or do you just hope so? He sounds very angry...of course hormones could be part of it....and how is your relationship with your partner/husband? Does he speak to you rudely?

He likes tv and nintendo ds and I take it away after a warning, I also give him an earlier bedtime, with the warning that if he screams at bedtime he gets an even earlier bedtime the next day. I can't believe I'm still doing this with an 11yo, not that it's improving anything really, I just feel like he shouldn't get away with shouting at me and others.

His teacher says he is not rude to her or others, but she is concerned about the lack of effort he puts into his schoolwork.

He doesn't seem to have any control over his anger.

DH and I are fine, if rather worn down. He agrees that there is a problem, but is probably not as concerned as me because he's out at work all day and doesn't deal with as much of the behaviour.

The only thing I can suggest is that you need to find out what is making him so angry. If he wont talk to you then try getting him to write it down if that makes it any better for him. Failing that I suggest you get on that flight to see a gp, rule out everything else so atleast you know you are just dealing with tantrums. Does your dh help with the discipline?
We are also currently abroad due to dh works and altho my ds is only 4 his behaviour goes to extremes if we have just come home from visiting family or if his dad is away for a week or so. I could try everything in the book to control ds with no luck but it will just take one word from dh and its all sorted. I think sometimes when we keep trying the same stuff over and over or even if we give in and dont follow through just that once then they will run with it and not take us seriously.

Thanks for the suggestions.

I really don't know why he does this. He is very jealous of younger dd, but I don't think it can only be that.

DH does discipline DS and has a bit more patience than I do. He can be a bit inconsistent though, he gets distracted and doesn't always follow through. I am the stricter parent, I would say.

What about giving him full responsibilty for getting ready/cleaning teeth/doing homework/putting on suncream? Do you think that's reasonable? We wouldn't fight as much but I think he just wouldn't do those things. And then what? He gets sunburn?

Wow, this sounds terrible! I'm sorry to hear you are going through this. One thing, if he hates talking to you, why not make that part of the discipline? He doesn't get to go anywhere until he shares something about how he is feeling. (more than just "bad") reward the effort. If you can stand the yelling and screaming, that is, until he settles and tells you something. Perhaps he can write it?

Also, I think it's a good idea for you to get some conselling advice, see if your GP has a counselor that can contact you by email and give suggestions. This is really a big deal and could be more than just hormones. Or it could be hormones. Does he have friends there? Or another family that perhaps he could spend time with? What about he and DH getting some man time together? could that help him express himself more?

I do think it's ok to let him sunburn, make some deal or contract that he says he will get himself ready so you can show him that it was his decision?

These may not apply at all, but I hope something works from someone!

Thanks, yes it is all really wearing and I often end up feeling guilty for not being patient enough and feeling like I should have dealt better with situations.

He does have friends, but he can sort of take or leave them, if that makes sense? He's quite self-contained and would rather do things on his own than compromise. He gets on better with younger children in general - he is quite wacky and sometimes does odd things and I think the younger kids just laugh along whereas the kids his age can find him a bit weird. He sometimes says older kids were mean to him if this happens - he would never perceive that he did anything odd or cheeky. However in other ways he is very perceptive and comes out with profound statements.

I suspect it's not hormones as he's always been like this. I think he just has a very strong character and doesn't care what people think. He doesn't hate talking to me as such, in fact he can express very well how he's feeling, it's more that he doesn't take on board what I say when I talk to him about his behaviour.

I think backing off as much as possible is the only way to go at the moment. I can't fight any more.

I'm not normally a shouty mummy... but just reading your OP sort of made my blood boil a little bit for you if that makes sense. Of course this may not be appropriate at all, but have you ever raised your own voice to him? I think if I had to put up with yelling and this kind of behaviour for longer than a day any length of time, I would just explode and he'd hear something along the lines of "DS!! I will not tolerate your shouting/behaviour/meanness to your sisters/insert appropriate action/ for one more minute! If you cannot speak to me or anyone else at a normal volume and politely, then don't speak at all. Go to your room and don't come out until you've got control of yourself."
I'd probably rinse and repeat several times - every time he raises his voice, within the first couple of loud words.

Have you ever completely flipped and told him off? Honestly asking. And if you have, what effect did it have?

I totally recognize this may not be appropriate or something you want to do. But I remember some seriously obnoxious behaviour of my own from my pre-teen years and having an adult just flip their lid at me, and the shock value of it was impressive and practically cured me of that particular behaviour overnight.

Just want to reiterate that I'm not normally in favour of shouting at all. Just wondering if the shock value of it might get through...

Poor you, it sounds like a nightmare. My initial thought was that he is really unhappy where you are living, but you say that he's always been like this. Does he have a problem with change? Is this your first family move, or one of many?

I think he could do with some professional help tbh. I have a very close friend whose son seems to only see the negative in all situations, he is very often a pita from an outside perspective but it must be pretty horrible to live in his head. He has recently had some therapy which certainly hasn't worked miracles but he does seem a bit happier in his own skin - might be worth a go.

'He was screaming down the stairs "WHERE'S MY SHIRT? WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH MY SHIRT?" The shirt had just been washed and ironed but was not yet back in his cupboard.
I said to him "if you could just calm down and ask nicely I could tell you where it is", and he shouted back
"I DID ASKED NICELY! i ASKED NICELY 3 TIMES AND THEN I HAD TO BE STRICT WITH YOU!"
I told him not to shout at me and walked away, and it continued like that....'

Sorry, but to me that read like a boy firmly in charge of what happened and you being led along.
The shirt should not have been washed or ironed by you.
You should not have responded at all to the shouting even if the top of his head blew off in mid sentence.
He didn't care where his shirt was, he just wanted to shout at you.
You shut the stable door after the horse had left.

Your DH needs to shout with his biggest man's voice at this DS of yours that if he ever shouts at you again or hits any of his sisters he will not be responsible for the consequences. And he has to mean it (so there must be very harsh consequences and no baulking). Your DH needs to shout louder at your DS than the DS has ever shouted at anyone in the family; he needs to scare the bejaysus out of the DS, get in his face and really lose it. I agree with Jacksmania.

The DH needs to take the lead here. There should be no more free ride for the DS. He needs chores, assigned by DH, and he can start with his own laundry and ironing and putting away. He needs to play a part in family meal preparation and cleanup, supervised by DH. Then you can move him into some positive thing like sports, where he can play on a team if there is one, or learn karate or some other martial art, or maybe join some outdoorsy thing with his father like hunting, fishing, hiking, scouts, etc. And he needs to do some volunteering for people who are less fortunate than him. with the family or just with his dad.

This isn't a case of a strong personality. Your DS is either very angry about something or he is getting something out of bullying his family because of some sort of emotional disorder. Either way, it has to stop. If your DH isn't up to getting very strict and firm and consistent about stating the behaviour expectations and standing up to him when he bullies you or hits his sisters then you are going to have to get outside help from a therapist. Don't wait for this to blow over because there is a good chance it will not and you will find yourself dealing with a 6 foot tall problem instead of the one you have now.

Believe me we have tried shouting at him. He couldn't care less. He shouts back. He has done things like run outside and pick up a rock and threaten to throw it at the window, or at us. In fact, me and DH losing our cool always makes things worse.

It sounds like he is in charge but that is really not the case. We are firm, consistent, always follow through on consequences. He has missed parties, trips out, etc due to his behaviour. He has to help in the house already with cooking and cleaning up, keeping his room tidy. He does these things, but it is always a fight, i.e. I have gone into his room and picked up everything on the floor and put it in a black bag when he refused to tidy.

If you compare me with my friends, I would say I am stricter than most. I don't have a problem setting boundaries, and my other 2 children behave very well (mostly!). We have moved around quite a bit but I honestly don't believe that is the issue here.

So, I agree that he needs help from somewhere else. What that should be I'm not sure of at the moment. There is nothing where we are. But that gives me food for thought for the next time we're home.

Well my advice was going to be the exact opposite of mathanxiety. Which I guess just goes to show how tough it can be.

The whole shirt story just sounded like he was mirroring you or your DH esp the part about asking 3 times then being strict, it struck me as a very odd thing for a 11 year old to say unless it was what he heard all the time. Maybe he thinks you shout too much. You say he is jealous of one girl more than the other. Any reasons? Is she younger and at what point did she come along?

To be honest I'd be inclined to get him on his own - whether its you or DH and whether its a day hike somewhere (I'm guessing arss end of nowhere offers limited entertainment!) or use the excuse for a trip to the GP as time away. My Niece hit a rough patch as a young teen and they had problems including her eating or lack of it. Although my sister feels the GP helped - she actually thinks the time spent in the car going to appointments and sitting in the waiting room, going for a coffee after just the two of them helped more. There were tears and shouting along the way but it was a lot of time sat with nothing to do but talk and eventually thats what they did.

If its been going on a long time its not going to change overnight and I'd pick your battles - set some rules eg no hitting from him and no nagging from you. And then stick to them and see if it makes a difference - if it does look at the next things that need sorting like class work or whatever. And you know what maybe he does just have to get badly sun burnt one time to learn the lesson.

You need to find a therapist. Something is wrong.

(I don't think you are as strict as you think you are though. Picking everything up off the floor and putting it in a black bag is actually tidying, in a way, and you are contributing to the shouting when you respond with an answer to his shouted demands or questions (as in the shirt scenario) and then only when he has what he wants and has put you in your place telling him he is not to shout at you -- that ship has sailed. You have to completely ignore whatever it is that he is asking even if it results in being late for school or having a window broken. If this is how things go in general and if that is what you call strict or setting boundaries, then he is running rings around you.)

He doesn't care about his shirt or his suncream or your window or his tidy room. You care about these things. He cares about power because you care about these things more than he does.

What is going on with him and the sisters? What has your DH ever said to him about mistreating them?