To just give up now?

[Turtleshark]

With my 11 year old DS that is.

I feel like I can't take any more. It sounds terrible but I've been dreaming of the day he leaves home. He wakes up, starts shouting at everyone in the house, refuses to get dressed, wash, eat, clean teeth, put on suncream and be ready on time.

Then he comes home from school, shouts some more, hits his sisters if they come near him, refuses to do homework, complains about dinner, refuses to take a shower and go to bed.

We have tried everything. We are not unreasonable people - we are fairly strict but flexible but nothing works. I have stayed calm, shouted, used reward charts, everything. He has pretty much always been like this.

Now I've had enough. We are all sick of his temper and constant negativity and the house has a better atmosphere when he's not there. I can't be bothered fighting and I've told him it's HIS responsibility to be ready for school, do homework, put on suncream etc. He knows about skin cancer and says he doesn't care.

AIBU?

Anyone else with a child like this and what did you do?

He does come out with some things for an 11 year old.

He is very jealous of his younger sister (2 years younger) - I would even go so far as to say he hates her. People tell me this is normal (I don't have any siblings) and DH doesn't seem concerned by it, but he seems to have more of a problem with her than other siblings I see. The first thing I hear in the mornings is usually DS shouting at his sister. She gets upset but doesn't seem to hold a grudge - if he asked her to play with him I know she would be there like a shot.

You are right, he is better on his own. We should try to do that more.

I feel like the rules we have always had are having no effect, things are not improving and he's still breaking the rules again and again. It's like he just wants to follow his own agenda all the time - if no one ever made any demands on him, like getting ready for school or having to wait for his sister to finish with the jam before he can have it, he would be fine. But that's not reality, obviously.

Mathanxiety DH would tell him off immediately if he says anything mean or hurts his sisters, as I would. He would be made to apologise and if appropriate make it up to them. But then he might do it again 5 minutes later.

I can let him take the consequences of his actions more as regards suncream etc.

Just very briefly, it sounds as if he's using his temper to control you all. I will come back to this and read the whole thread, but I recognise what you've described and I strongly suspect it's primarily about control.

Well if it helps my sister and I hated each other for most of the teenge years and now we're best friends! Drove my mum (an only child) insane.

I would give him some responsibility knowing that to begin with it will all going wrong - so he has to get himself up and ready for school. Warn the teacher in advance but he should expect what ever the normal punishment is for being late, he may get sunburn, he may stink and get teased by kids. But simply tell him what he is expect to do and repeat it - don't shout at him or nag. You have to hope that he'll learn the lessons himself - and at 11 he is old enough to do so.

And tell him you'll do stuff just with him - and make it a priority. Normally I'd say don't favour one kid over another but if its so bad at home then I'd argue its in every ones interest to do it esp in the short term. And I hate to say it because it sounds all "boys stick together" but I really think your DH has to step up to some of the one on one time and helping him learn responsibility. His role isn't just to work and to discipline. Any other male role models - coaches, teachers even neighbours who could help out?

Realistically he is 11 - you're in this for the long haul and you're in the middle of nowhere so there is limited help to bail you all out, its got to be worth putting in loads of effort to do things differently to see if it makes a difference

I agree with mathanxiety.

There is much more wrong here than discipline will sort out.

I have 2 boys and 1 girl. My boys are in their 20s now, and believe me I went through the terrible teens.

Obviously, I only have what you have posted to go on, but I think your son needs professional help urgently. I mean assessment by a clinical psychologist, and possibly referral to someone qualified in mental health.

Everything you have tried has not helped. Time is passing, he is getting bigger and stronger, please think about where and how you are going to access the help he needs. I think it will be a long process and your DH needs to get on board 100%.

I really hope you manage to get some help.

Hi my son is quite a bit younger (7) we are not in the UK either and have major issues with sun here too. My ds has Aspergers and is exactly as you describe. It is extremely emotionally and physically exhausting! We have always had to think outside the box for our ds and some things work and some don't.

Some that have made a difference

Everything that is causing friction that can be his responsibility is such as getting ready in the morning. (I will wake him and get his breakfast ready and then it is up to him) He has to go in to school, if he is late he is to apologise to the teacher and explain that it is because he didn't get ready in time, if he refuses to either go to school or apologize all privileges are removed (and I mean all!) until it is done.

Everything that is non negotiable eg sunscreen he has a choice of which sunscreen (we have a roll on one which he prefers) and whether he applys it or we do and until it is done all privileges are removed.
We have an ask, tell, do approach to most other stuff so we ask him to do something, if ignored or yelled at we tell him to do something, if ignored or yelled up he gets a strike every strike is 15 minutes screentime deducted.

We also have a system at the moment of completely not responding when he is shouting which is extremely hard and he can go on for a long time in your face but he has been told clearly I will not do anything for him or talk to him while he is shouting at me. The shouting is slowly, very slowly decreasing in duration if not yet in frequency.

We also have a reward system. He earns tokens for random stuff (it sounds weird but if we give him specific goals he cannot manage to attain them but if we start picking up stuff that is kind of in the vicinity of behaviour we want then we can definately up the occurance of those behaviours if that makes sense. Tokens at this stage are 1 = extra story (bearing in mind he is younger than yours and cannot read independently) 2 = 15mins extra tv time 3 = 20 mins computer time 4 = small gift from bag of small goodies. He can choose to spend or save as he wishes, this has been the single most effective method we have ever used especially when we introduced the random "ds, I am so impressed how well you stayed calm to ask me you have earned a token" rather than a set goal.

Other things that have really helped lately have been milkshake breathing (he needed a prop for this at first where we showed him when he was really, really angry to blow giant great big bubbles with a straw and then slowly blow smaller and smaller ones until they were so tiny you had to really search for them ( he now does this breathing technique himself without prompts at times though at other times can't get past the anger to use it) Also red thoughts and green thoughts so if he is being especially negative about things we call those red thoughts or stop sign thoughts that are not productive. We then try to get him or provide him with green or go thoughts to replace them. This is a much harder thing for him to do than the milkshake technique but it is slowly having an impact.

I do sympathise as ds has no self perception of his own role in things and when he goes around loudly and repeatedly blaming everything in life on me it is hard not to internalize it and take responsibility at times.

sorry I didn't mean that to be so long

I couldn't disagree more with this satement from mathanxiety Your DH needs to shout with his biggest man's voice at this DS of yours

How will that help? and as far as "getting in his face" goes....just about that style of parenting.

OP I am going to be harsh a bit when I say that you do sound like you're frustrated and angry and I suspect your son is sensing that you have some kind of bitterness towards him...you have an answer for everything but your son is apparently not suffering in any way hes just "odd" or "angry"

Kids are not like that for NO reason.

I only have a toddler - so am making a stab in the dark rather than speaking from experience. But it sounds to me like the key may be helping him to open up and explore his feelings - he may not even know himself what is upsetting him. I read a book called 'playful parenting' (it's on amazon) a while back with some interesting ideas around role play and making safe places to talk. I'm not sure I'd follow all the concepts in its entirety - but it might have some ideas that could help. Good luck - hope your little man cheers up soon for all of your sakes!

Everybody needs to stop with the shouting. Monkey see, monkey do.
You need to dial down everyone's emotions and completely change the culture in the household to one of peace and calm. You may find that that highlights his own behaviour to such an extent that he just changes gradually by himself.

This is about all of you, it's not fair to make it about him. His father should be his ally, not his enemy.

I don't know where you are or how long you have been there. It sounds as if you are very remote but also that your son may need professional help and that you need some professional support to deal with the situation. Is it available where you are, is a transfer possible at all, would it be possible for the ds to board so that access to the help is available and familiy tensions are difused. Is it possible there could be an asd underlying this - I don't know but I think you need to focus on finding out if there is a specific underlying cause that needs to be managed or if it is just a behavioural issue. Do the girls every behave similarly? It may just be worse of course due to hormones and being uprooted, the effect of which shouldn't be underestimated.

Thanks for the responses. Have just been to collect dcs from school. DS was in an ok mood, he had a snack and was then supposed to start homework. He has about an hour per day. He spent 5 minutes sitting at the table then started complaining loudly. I ignored him, and it escalated into a full-on strop. He is now in his room shouting things he obviously wants me to hear, like "I'm not doing my homework!" and "I'm never going to school again!" DD is doing piano practice and he's shouting "Shut up DD!" every couple of minutes.

I think I have 2 options:

1. Give him a few minutes to calm down then tell him if he doesn't come and do homework he will go to bed early/lose tv time/whatever.

1. Leave him there, and let him deal with the consequences of not doing homework.

To answer some of the above:

DH is totally supportive and hands on, BUT only sees DS for 30 mins or so per day during the week, but is around all weekend so time doing things with DS then sounds like a good idea.

I would not say I'm bitter but I am very worn down which does translate into a negative vibe which I have no doubt DS picks up. Every day I say I'm going to be more positive.

Yawnmonster your post is very helpful and I can relate to so much of what you wrote. The milkshake breathing is interesting, I could try that.

The thought of getting mental health professionals involved is scary to be honest, but I want to help my son.

Marriedinwhite a transfer will only happen when the company decides. I honestly don't think that's the real issue. My dds' behaviour has never been an issue.

The noise upstairs has stopped now.

I think you should completely ignore him and if the homework remains undone, let him bear the consequences.

Tell DD you're sorry he's shouting at her but it's best to ignore rudeness and shut the door to the room she's in.

If he comes down, send him back up. Could he be overtired in some way? His behaviour sounds like a tired child. Can he go out to play in the evening usually? Get rid of the energy?

I left him up there. He came down once and I sent him back. I said down here to do homework or in his room. I said he had better work out what he's going to say to his teacher tomorrow, he replied he's not going to school tomorrow. I didn't reply to that. He just came down again and said he's going outside. I told him, no, upstairs or homework. He hasn't gone out yet but he says he's going to, and he doesn't have to listen to ugly, stupid parents. Ideally he WOULD go outside to ride his bike etc, but I feel I have to stick to the rule of homework first.

DD is not bothered, she's well used to him, unfortunately.

He's not tired. It's not that.

He's just run out. He says he doesn't care what I say because I'm not his mum anymore. Now what?

I feel I need wine. Which is not the answer, I know.

Just serving dinner to the dds and he's still outside somewhere. Feel like he can go to bed with nothing to eat. Grr.

I was interested in Yawnmonster's post too. I'd been reading through the thread thinking, "Asperger's...?" Now I don't have personal experience of autism, but that business about the toast set alarm bells ringing. And my DD has been in school with autistic kids who display exactly that kind of behaviour - extreme shouting and rage if something is not just the way they want it.

It does sound as if he might need professional help. There's something not right about that constant level of anger when he's in a normal, loving family.

He doesn't mind about anyone else's toast (or whatever) though - only his sister's.

Where do you start with getting help then? GP?

He's still outside, I don't know where he's gone.

Sitting here chatting with my dds about school and friends and Christmas and thinking "how did I go so wrong with one of my dcs???"

Yes, I echo hackmum's post. I thought that too. All the best, OP. It sounds very exhausting for you all.

Four, in fact, Maryz.

No-one has ever mentioned Asperger's. In fact all the schools he's been in have said he does well socially. Hmm. We've had ADHD mentioned, not in so many words but I knew what they were getting at. He doesn't pay attention in class unless he is interested in what's going on. Also dyslexia has been a possibility, but there is so much behavioural stuff that it's hard to separate how much he can't do from how much he won't do.

I just went out with the girls, ostensibly for a walk but really to check where DS is. He was outside the house and ignored us.