To just give up now?

[Turtleshark]

With my 11 year old DS that is.

I feel like I can't take any more. It sounds terrible but I've been dreaming of the day he leaves home. He wakes up, starts shouting at everyone in the house, refuses to get dressed, wash, eat, clean teeth, put on suncream and be ready on time.

Then he comes home from school, shouts some more, hits his sisters if they come near him, refuses to do homework, complains about dinner, refuses to take a shower and go to bed.

We have tried everything. We are not unreasonable people - we are fairly strict but flexible but nothing works. I have stayed calm, shouted, used reward charts, everything. He has pretty much always been like this.

Now I've had enough. We are all sick of his temper and constant negativity and the house has a better atmosphere when he's not there. I can't be bothered fighting and I've told him it's HIS responsibility to be ready for school, do homework, put on suncream etc. He knows about skin cancer and says he doesn't care.

AIBU?

Anyone else with a child like this and what did you do?

Mary what you wrote makes so much sense. You are obviously the voice of experience and it sounds like you have gone through (are still going through?) some very difficult times with your DS. The book looks interesting, will try to get that asap.

I know very little about this subject, other than the experience of living with my brother who has what we would now call ADHD. I understand (but can't condone) your husband's reluctance to seek a diagnosis because he feels it would negatively impact on educational options. You seem very anti seeking a diagnosis and I find it hard to understand why - do you also feel there is a stigma attached? Even if there isn't the kind of support where you are that would be found in the English education system, don't you perhaps think that a diagnosis would enable you to access relevant support through online resources?

The other point is that if you knew it wasn't DS's "fault" in some way you might feel more kindly disposed to him.... at the moment your posts seem to suggest you consider your son is just "bad" in some way. That isn't a good place for any of you to be in.

No not anti-diagnosis - if it's necessary then fine, but I feel I first need to inform myself, think, research and then if we decide on assessment I want to carefully choose who we see. Basically we pay upfront for anything so I want to know a lot about the medical professional before I hand over any cash.

Some children are just difficult. And they are very hard work to parent.

So my question to you, right now, since you've had very valuable advice re your son, which I can't add to - is: what are you doing for yourself to make sure that you don't go off the rails with how difficult everything is?

Yes, your DS is hard work. Yes, he deserves kindness and love, because obviously in some ways he extremely angry and unhappy. But he's not doing the hard work, you are. You're suffering, too, and so are your DDs.

You've had fabulous, caring advice from Cheerful, maryz and everyone else whose names I can't recall now. That's advice for your son.

What can we help you with to take care of you?

I have a brother who was very similar. Now middle aged, he can't remember his early years (and I'm talking up to mid 20s or 30 or so.) I haven't spoken to him since I was 8 and he doesn't really know why.

OP, I was in the position of your younger daughter and my life was hell. All of our lives were hell, actually, but I was the one he focused on and now I'm the only one who can't bring herself to speak to him.

I don't know what's wrong with your son. He's not the same as my brother as he didn't have any affectionate periods, though I think he would have wanted them. The fury, though, that's the same and believe me if he's still furious when he's a teenager, there will be more problems than there are now.

I think for everyone's sake you should do something about this. For his, for your daughters' and for your own. He is ruining your family life. In my family we all left home as soon as we could. I couldn't even say his name (in relation to anyone with the same name) - it was awkward for me in that my first boss shared the same first name and I had to call him Mr X because I just couldn't say the name.

Your husband is choosing not to recognise the true situation. It's nonsense that a school won't take him with a diagnosis but will have the same boy there without the diagnosis.

A diagnosis will help you deal with him in an appropriate manner. There may be drugs that can help. The alternative is living like this, but with it slowly getting worse as he becomes taller, stronger and more full of testosterone.

I really feel for you, but I still feel for myself as a child, with parents who didn't seek help outside the family.

Aww thanks maryz

I hope you're feeling a bit better today Turtleshark . :)

Could you come up with some things that are non-negotiable and stick with those as rules (i.e. hitting his sisters)? What would happen at school if he didn't do his homework? Could you just leave it?

I work as a behavioral aide, I should have better advice for you! What are some of the specific issues you're seeing and what would you most like to change? I can talk to some of my colleagues too.

It is hard. My mother's friend is going through something very similar with her daughter (she is 17 now) and I kept thinking "Oh I would do this and this and this" but it is so hard to factor in how hard and wearing it is to live with someone like that, and the amount of tension such a personality can bring to the home.

Must say Aspergers jumps out at me in particular as you also mention dyslexia as they are very often co morbid. As many on thread, not keen at this remote diagnosis game however feel you do need to get him assessed asap !

He sound very unhappy.

And of course the whole household is with all that going on.

If you can get Dr. Edward Bach's Rescue Remedy, give him 4 drops 4x a day.

You will be amazed....

In fact, you all need to take it (just to cope with it all).

sounds

not called Rescue Remedy for nothing

My son is 9 and shows a lot of similar traits. He has been diagnosed with Asperger's ASD. He is extremely imaginative, sporty, chatty, and shows a lot of empathy to those close to him. We love him dearly.
BUT he still gets extremely angry, will argue the toss on some matter which is important to him, won't think ahead, resists instructions unless they ARE ROUTINE and absolutely embedded in his soul. Nor will he do his homework unless it is the last moment (luckily he gets extremely little). He also gets into terrible states where he will rant on for hours about his misfortunes How Come I Never Get to Go-Karting - This is the Worst Day of My Life etc.
My 11 year old is not ASD but shows some similarities to your son too in the sense that is normal teenage combativeness to not want to do your homework and not want to be told what to do. There is a difference between the two characters, and I'm not looking forward to ds2 being both teenage and ASD at once. They are both hopelessly untidy, and disorganised. Yet somehow Ds1 does hold it together and organise himself, beneath all that sloppiness he gets all the work done, and all the kit to school, and is on time for everything. I think somewhere along the way we were encouraging and handsoff enough for him to take responsibility.

However, in dealing with Ds2 it has been clear that a lot of the same techniques work.
RULES but lightly applied. So get them to do their homework at exactly same time every day but don't then insist they correct all the spelling mistakes as well or point out how badly they did it. Just getting them into habit is key.
TALKING TO THEM When the talking is not jst a series of instructions, demands, reprimands, buts and why aren't you, and if you did this you would find etc...but genuinely open ended. LISTENING TO THEM (recommend How To Talk So Children Listen, and Listen so Children Talk)
TALKING FIRMLY BUT SIMPLY AND QUIETLY. No long explanations or rants or prophesies. Just information. I think kids just tune out when they hear adults giving long lectures. So phrases like Homework Upstairs.

HTH.
I think if your child does have ASD he needs extra parenting skills and love from you, it is hard work to be patient, but remember it is not your fault he is angry. Anger is part of ASD frustration, not quite understanding why the world works in the way it does.

ASD course I went on also said very important to show absolutely Zero tolerance for violence. They instantly go to their room for example, or have to stop and apologise. But long term punishments aren't much use as they increase the rage the person is feeling and sense that everyone is unjust to them (common ASD misperception). The older the child gets the more used they will otherwise get to the "release" of being violent and lashing out, and not finding other solutions. So very very important to crack down on it, though not in a aggressive, violent or shouting manner, just clear consequences, firmly applied. No shouting in the house. Escort upstairs. Take by his hand to his room.
We send Ds2 to his room the minute he starts shouting, or reacts violently, which he has only just started doing. Then he calms down (usually) we don't engage in discussions of who is wrong or right or whose fault it was he shouted or lashed out. Just zero tolerance. We don't do things like threaten confiscation or cancel trips, just remove him from the room We are In. He doesn't like that on one level, but he also likes being in a calm place, so it is a win win re-inforcement.

Ds1 can be a complete spoilt brat when he has a tantrum over homework for example, so we now just leave him raging by himself, and then he usually calms himself down, and comes round. He has been very difficult recently, the How To Talk Book has been absolutely invaluable for salving a lot of potential flareups, as has teachers' saying we should let him do his homework to his own standard not ours.

Turtle, I was struck by the fact you said that you have indeed moved around a bit, but you don't think that's the problem.

Why do you think that? Just because it has not affected your DDs does not mean it can't have affected your son. You say he's happy as long as things are his way -- but if you have moved around a lot, it's possible that he is sort of in a permanent state of not having his own way. Even if he likes one location, he has to know that at any time he might have to leave it, even if he doesn't want to.

Both me and DH moved around quite a bit when we were younger, and while at the time we could not articulate how it affected us because it was just the way things were looking back it is easy to see some of the negative impact it had.

DH has twin siblings, one of them was not bothered at all and the other hated it and lashed out constantly at the entire family.

Perhaps your son has deeper problems, but I think it's worth exploring the idea that maybe at least some of this is a reaction to the uncertainty and instability of moving around. I'm sure there must be some books or something about expat children.

Turtle ds2 with ASD hates moving around although he likes adventures, ifysim. He likes to know exactly where his basecamp and what his routine is. He behaved extremely oddly in the holidays when the routine and place changed for a few weeks, although he loves loves school trips and adventures, residential trips etc.

Can you wake tomorrow and treat him as if you really like him - see him in a positive light. Maybe he feels misunderstood and thinks you don't really love or value him? Spend quality one to one time with him here and there. Chat to him with warmth and light hearted humour. Sit him down and explain you want to make things better and what can WE do as a team to make things better? Together write some house rules - you can promise not to shout and he can promise to ask nicely.

Also is there any chance he his on the autistic spectrum and so finds moving around and change that much harder?

Maybe also get yourself some books on young adults?

What Skyblue says is also true, "striking while the iron is cold." I.e. sit down and talk to him when no one is upset. It might not work, but it might.

You could come up with a contract maybe, and both sign it? That way you could come back to it when he acts up and say, you said this and you signed it, etc.

Have you ever considered that he might be an unhappy child crying out for attention?

Have you ever sat down and actualy talked to him?

Maybe you should.

Kids are the way they are because of how they are raised, if he has personality disorder or any other whatjamackallit its because of bad parenting.

Fabby - your lack of empathy and sensitivity is, as usual, utterly breath-taking. "If he has a personality disorder or any other whatchamacallit it's because of bad parenting" - are you for real?
Get a grip on yourself and next time, before you post, sit on your bloody hands think!!

I've only read the first page. My thoughts, bearing in mind I have a 13yo DD with asd...is some form of Autism. This OP reads EXACTLY like DD behaves, and very little has an impact on her behaviour. Though she doesn't leave the house, she just punches holes in my doors, or breaks her own possessions in her roomn. .

I find that the ONLY way I can get through the meltdowns is to have clear, set rules and consequences, i.e. if she hits her brother, she will be made to properly apologise, and will lose out on something she wants. I do not respond to any shouting. At all. Ever. I pretend it isn't happening. which some days takes the patience of a saint.

Today it was because DS1 (her HATED sibling) had after-school tuition and she had to come with me to drop him off. She went into a massive diatribe shouting at me and her brother about how she wasn't going to do this every week, it wouldn't make her brother's life any better, and he was evil and stupid because he wants to do extra school work, and on and on and on. She didn't stop until she went to bed.

It's exhausting, day in, day out since she was tiny.

OP - I would read up on Autistic spectrum disorders, to my mind, that's what it sounds like to me, though I am in no way qualified to diagnose that over a computer screen - all I can do is go by my own experiences with my DD, and your posts sound like a general day with DD.

No, Fabby, you are utterly wrong, sorry.

My brother was the way he was no matter what my parents tried. Granted, he would have been worse if he had been poorly parented, but he was pretty fecking awful regardless.

Ah. I see I'm not the only person to talk about the possibility of an Autistic Spectrum Disorder.

hunty just sending you a virtual that sounds a very hard day. I know that ds2 too would hate having his routine disrupted to accompany anyone anywhere, unless a whole new routine was set up that he felt was to his advantage or he felt safe with.
I remember I tricked ds2 into enjoying going to ds1's singing lesson by turning it into a buy a Beano mag and have a lemonade routine. Is there some way you could trick her into wanting to do it every week. They get so set on their rights and the injustices that are done to them.

It is very hard not to be able to do what most NT families would consider a breeze