To think Bro and SIL have strange priorities

[wearingjudgeypants]

I've name changed, as SIL has just started using MN and if she read this along with posts in my usual name, she'd definitely know who I was. I'd rather avoid family fireworks if I can.

I genuinely don't know if I'm being too harsh in my judgement, but I'll take the flack if I am.

SIL is currently 18 weeks pregnant, a much wanted baby (first pg ended in miscarriage). As my youngest DC is growing out of baby things such as highchair, baby toys, back carrier, bike seat etc, I asked DBro and SIL a couple of weeks ago whether they were likely to want any of these items. They explained that they were not planning for their baby to have any second hand equipment or clothing, as they want the fun of choosing things and want to ensure that the 'nursery' equipment all matches. I thought that was slightly PFB, but fair enough and clearly their choice.

This weekend we all had lunch together and my parents house and conversation turned to maternity leave and childcare. SIL explained that they had been looking round nurseries and childminders last week as she is planning to go back to work full time when baby is 6 weeks as they can't afford for her to be off work any longer.

Am I being too judgey in thinking that their newborn DC would benefit more from having his/her mum at home for a few more weeks rather than have money spent on brand new equipment for it to use. If IABU, that's okay, I'll keep my views to myself, but if not, is there a polite, subtle way to introduce this thought to DB and SIL?

Fire away Mumsnet...

Don't say anything - it will poison your relationship with her forever. Nothing makes people so angry as suggestions that they don't care enough for their children - look at the posts on this thread.

But, FWIW, I agree that her priorities are totally skewed. Putting a 6 week old in nursery is awful, unless you honestly can't survive without the money. I think the responses on this thread are quite shocking. I think posters are so focused on the rights of the mother and the 'happy mother' idea that they forget that there is also a little baby in the equation.

Garlicnutter, People who need a 'life beyond the crib' so desperately that they return to work in six weeks should think more carefully about whether they want a crib.

Reminds me of my ante-natal classes. The Road Safety Officer came round to tell us the importance of buying the correct car seat.

Was a bit like crash helmets: i.e. new is best as you know it's never been in a crash. So many questions like 'but what if I know it's never been involved in an accident because the parent who wants to get rid of it says so?' I'd swear that the people asking these questions were wearing more on their backs than the most plumpicious of car seats would've cost.

Mind you, they do seem to come up with a newfangled invention every day. Maybe the OP's SIL fancies one of those double-decker push-chairs which enables you to scrape DC2's back along the ground whilst he/she gazes up at nothing more than the sib's arse

Bogey, thanks for your posts - honestly though, the more someone like Kelly posts and insists I am a bad mom foe my belief that a six week old should not be away from their mummies the worst she and someone like bemy who agrees with her - look. She comes across as bitter, twisted, like someone who wants to spit venom at me and thinks that if she continues to 'attack' me, she will do so. How pathetic, sad and hilarious it is all at the same time.

Kelly luvvy you really need to understand that you are coming across as hystetical and you are not looking good. I know you are trying to provoke a reaction in my you poor little love, but seeing as you are talking rubbish and the fact that what you 'think' is totally insignificant, I'm afraid it's not working love. But do carry on digging your hole, you are coming across soooo well with your 'attacks' on me.

Bogey - my posting was probably blunt, I suppose as a mom who changed a lot of things to be able to be with my children once they were born it is something I feel strongly about. Of course, in cases where a mom has to go back so soon, it is a shame for Both mom and baby, but I can't help but think that this pregnant sil has no idea how hard it will be and six weeks is just too, too young. I really do think it is not good for either mom or baby.

Well put tryingtoleave
After all, we are talking about six week old babies! Not six month old babies! (I personally believe in babies being with mom until at least one years old, but I know this is not possible in many cases - but that's a different discussion. I am not judging those who put their babies in before one, it's just a personal thing of mine that I don't like babies in nursery before one.) I'm really thankful that I personally waited until I was in a position to be at home with my babies - those first few months of being with them, breastfeeding them and having them close were so precious. I hope she changes her mind when she has the baby, I don't think she has any idea how hard it will be.
At Six weeks though... That is just awful to me. Too too soon for mom and baby.

When I had my DCs in the US, ages ago now, the max maternity leave that anyone was entitled to was 6 weeks, and it was unpaid. Any working mother who wanted to return to her place of employment (you weren't guaranteed your old job back, but could be moved laterally) had to be back at the desk or on the factory floor or behind the till when the baby was 6 weeks old. I knew a woman, a lawyer, who went back two weeks after ECS, her baby was in the office with her initially, and then a place in the daycare she had chosen for him unexpectedly opened up when he was four weeks old so she took it. Nurseries normally take babies from 6 weeks in the US.

Not saying it's right, but some people have no choice. Nice long European mat leave is unheard of in the Land of the Free.

First of all, were you wanting to sell them your stuff, or give it to them? Because if you were expecting money for it they might prefer to choose their own stuff as opposed to accepting free hand-me-downs that do them a favour.

As for the nursery thing, I'd just leave well alone if I were you. FWIW I agree with you - but over my dead body would I EVER say something like that to another mother who is about to put her small baby into childcare. Especially a SIL. Just not worth the flak.

She will have made all the evaluations herself and if she thinks that's best for her family then you must respect that.

In fact, I think if your place of employment has fewer than 50 employees then the 6 week rule still holds.

i think the two can be linked by a thread of rank consumerism, yes.

i can think of nothing more depressing than the concept that there is some joy to be derived from overpaying for some monstrous plasticky chariot for baby, or a nasty huge cot or the thousand other inanimate objects tht new parents are badgered into thinking they need. They are objects, not to be imbued withntoo much emotional significance, surely.

and i think it's worth examining deeply why either parent needs to return to work so soon. is it just to keep on the consumerist treadmill?

i don't judge working parents as circumstances tie us to work for so many reasons. we work part-time (although i've had more than a year's mat leave in both cases) and enjoy the balance it brings. and our children benefit from having their father bringing them up.

but frothing over buying baby equipment? deeply sad.

i wouldn't understand it, as i've never bought a pram or a cot and barely any clothes

Read whole thread and runningwild you are coming across as deeply unpleasant and hugely judgemental. But you won't care about that.... Which is nice.

Sock puppets are out in force I see. Brilliant!

"I don't get not wanting second hand stuff, buying is fun but so is not parting with money!"

"I never understand why people turn their noses up at secondhand things. I'd be tearing at the bit to take them off your hands! It's STUPID buying all new when there's no need, the cash can be put to better use, as you suggest, a slightly longer maternity leave, or put in trust for baby."

Same here. I was given:
Cot
pram
nappy changing unit
baby bath
plus lots of other bits and bobs.

I was extremely grateful not to have to fork out for them, especially as I knew that I wouldn't be able to have any more children after DD was born. The only new thing I bought was a McLaren buggy when DD was 7 months old.

That said, I agree that you need to keep your opinions to yourself and let them get on with it

Nope, no SP here. Feel free to search my posting history. Of course, you'll say you're not interested. But you're interested enough to check and see if I replied.

Just accept they are mad. A baby is one time where they don't care what they have and you can get it all second hand and save a fortune. I think they are playing dolls, rather than dealing with a human being. HOWEVER -do not comment-they won't like it.

YABU. There is no correlation between returning to work early and not accepting secondhand items for the baby.

As for returning to work after 6 weeks, well public sector jobs are particularly vulnerable at the moment and she's probably thinking that returning early will take away some of the risk of losing her job. Or she could simply love her work. Or she genuinely can't afford to stay off work longer.

Who knows.

She may think differently once her DC is in her arms but may not.

Either way, YABU.

No shandy, I am not interested in insignificant posts/views such as yours so we shall leave it at that. Although it tickles me no end that you are so bothered by me. Brilliant!

Love the way you flatter yourself that you think i came back for you shandy even though I was posting from yesterday. Keep going - you are making me laugh so much! I come back because it is so amusing to see how het up people are about the fact I find leaving a six week old baby wrong and the way some people show themselves up with their bitter posting! It's making me lol too much

If they are in the UK, its not likely that they will find anyone to care for a 6 week old full time, certainly not a nursery and unlikely a childminder. You'd need a nanny and even then its a stretch.

Why is 6 weeks wrong, runningwild?

We know you think it is. We know you are spitting feathers about it. But Why?

Because the baby needs its mummy and no-one else will do?
Because the mother needs to be with the baby?
Because you believe it to be so (as opposed to know it to be so)?
Because you are omnipotent and know it to be so?

It's a bit nasty to say people shouldn't have kids, you know, so I'm keen to understand what drives you to be so judgemental? Do you really think that following the beliefs you yourself subscribe to determines who are the goodies and who are the baddies? And that therefore someone who doesn't do as you decree should not have kids?

I'm not a Buddhist or a Muslim. They live their lives differently to me, but it wouldn't occur to me to ever consider that because I don't subscribe to their particular beliefs I am somehow better or more deserving than they, so I wonder what allows you to justify being so judgemental when it comes to parenting decisions, which are just as personal and belief-driven as religion. It just feels like such a nasty little ignorant place to position yourself in.

YANBU, I agree with you, to those saying it's none of her business, she's allowed an opinion.

runningwilde Tue 22-Nov-11 10:00:55

I come back because it is so amusing to see how het up people are about the fact I find leaving a six week old baby wrong and the way some people show themselves up with their bitter posting! It's making me lol too much

oh the irony

Good post squiffy

I was wondering the same runningwilde. Have you seen some compelling evidence that childcare at a young age damages children? Are you a child psychologist who has studied this or have you read a really convincing and well executed study

We all have opinions but to be so inflexible and angry about this issue, to the point where you say women who go back to work should not have children makes me wonder if you have some sort of insight the rest of us don't have access to?

Some of us saying that it's none of the OP's business don't actually agree with putting a 6 weeker in childcare. Hell I wouldn't even put my 9 year old. It's just that the SIL and DB have made a choice according to their circumstances, and they don't have to justify it or discuss it with the OP.

And did the OP mention the SIL wanting to buy a £1000 pram? I don't know what's with the assumptions. Maybe she just wants mid range or even value items, just not used.

Really don't want to cause offence, and i mean this gently, but:

Is it possible that they are financially unable to do anything else but have the mum return to work so soon and would therefore also benefit from second hand things, but don't want to take things from you and have said they want only new things as a way of turning you down gently???

I am PG first time, my Dh and i are very poor. We will be so grateful for any second hand stuff we are given as it will mean something else we don't have to find the money for. However, there is one person around us (trying not being too specific) who we know will probably offer us lots of things. We have already decided that we would politely decline due to the attitude of this person.

We are already sick to death of the whole 'i've been here before and know everything you should be doing' behaviour. It is a form of control and really not nice.

Do you think you might be coming across this way, even by accident?? You ask if there is a gentle and polite way to point out that you think their priorities are wrong.(!)

I don't think believing a 6 week old baby should ideally be with their mum is unreasonable, but i do think this thread maybe is. Do you really think your sil won't read it, & do you think a part of you is upset that she hasn't accepted your things and that is what this is really about?
(BTW- I'm not the SIL)

Boris i was just about to ask if you were SIL...

but you make a very good point

Yes thought i'd better add the disclaimer in at the bottom!