to say this to a child?

[MarieFromStMoritz]

OK, my DS is being regularly beaten up by a boy in his year. My DS is 6 years old and the other child is about the same. I have spoken to the teacher about it, and she spoke to the child. We thought that would be the end of it. However, my DS came home on Thursday and told us that not only had this child done it again, but he was getting other children to hit him, too. I asked DH where the teacher was, and he said that she was talking to some other children, so didn't see. He said he then went to speak to her but she was busy talking to other people, and then the bell went.

So, I have been seething about this all weekend. My DS is a delightful little boy and wants to be friends with everyone. I love him so much and cannot bear the thought of anybody hurting him.

So, this morning I asked DS to point out this child, which he did. I went over to the child with my DS so that he knew who I was. I bent down to the child's level, pointed my finger an inch from his face, and said: "if you ever hurt my son again, there will be trouble. Do you understand me?" The child's lip started quivering and he walked away.

I was stood in the playground for a while to keep an eye on things, and this child kept looking at me. It occurred to me afterwards that as I was wearing sunglasses, he could not see whether or not I was looking at him. He looked a bit intimidated and afterwards I felt quite bad.

My job is to protect my child, non? But why do I feel so bad? And WIBU? Thanks.

Marie - my son was stealthily bullied for about 3 yrs; they managed to isolate him from all but one of his friends by physically threatening them. They were so good at it that my ds was ashamed to tell us that he was being beaten up/bullied regularly.

The school waffled about it for a long time, every time they intervened there would be a mild improvement, then it would begin again. He began to have behavioural problems - not eating, not sleeping. The school started questioning what was going on at home, even though they knew he was still having problems with these children.

Things came to a head when one of the little sods threw lighter fluid over him, and told him he was going to burn him and kill him. My ds (at 10), tried to defend himself, ended up pinned to the ground, and got free by biting the other boy on the chest.

The school contacted us ASAP, wanting to exclude/punish OUR ds for violence; it was only when my dh pointed out that he was acting in self defense, under provocation (and in fear) - and that the school had been extremely negligent in their handling of the entire situation that they backed down. That and the fact that my dh insisted on involving the police, insisted on recording every meeting we had with the school, and insisted on involving the local education authority.

My ds was withdrawn (by me) from school for a week; he saw our GP and a child psychologist during that time, and he went back when the school had put a proper anti bullying policy into place.

He's been discharged by the child psych, and is now at high school (a different one to the bullies) and is back to being a carefree happy boy.

I really feel for you - and hope that this knocks this on the head. Keeping my fingers crossed for you and your ds.

Slave how could the teacher know it happened a second time if she didn't see it and the DS didn't tell her?

She can't read minds and perhaps she expected a beaten up 6yr old to tell her what had happened whether the bell had gone or not.

It's ok to say she should have known about it whether the OP told her or not, but no-one told her.

So unless the child was in obvious distress and she saw the mark on his ear, how is she to know?

OP - YANBU. I was that child once and my mum had to step in. I was so glad she did, I had three girls bullying me.

I understand those saying he is only 6, but so is your DS and he has the right to be protected, and fear going to school.

You did the right thing, if the school had dealt with it you would not have said a word.

Not fear going to school

CheerfulYank - no, we know that. Does he?

I will say it again, if someone I don't know walks up and says 'There will be trouble' I will be scared because I have no frame of reference - I have no idea what they mean. And this is doubly so if you are six and the person saying this is an adult.

If she meant, "Don't do this or I will have to talk to your mother" then that is what she should have said. Not gone after him at school, a place where he also has a right to feel safe (not a place where some adult he doesn't know can come up to him and make very vague threats). And she should have said it in a reasonable and controlled manner. Not bending down and pointing her finger an inch from his face.

Someone with experience of educating kids this age has already said. The kids that behave like this are invariably from a very unsettled, inconsistency in care background. Yet people have still called him a 'little shit' 'spoilt brat', and took the attitude that he bloody well deserved it. Others have acknowledged that he may well come from a dodgy background but they don't give a shit, they'd still have had a go to 'protect' their precious offspring.

I'm just shocked!!

I can't help thinking that, as an adult, whether I had done something wrong or not, if someone set out to extract some vigilante justice without even talking to me, or asking my side of it, I would be hurt and frightened right now. If you do something wrong, as a grown-up, if everyone knows it was you, they still ask you for your side of things. This is what the other lad is being denied.

So it all rests on one child's version of events. It may well be right. But I've also been involved in trying to reason with an 8 year old who got paint on her and was convinced it was an act of aggression by another kid. It wasn't - I was standing right there and I saw it. Child A was being an idiot and waving a paintbrush around, and it caught Child B as she walked past. Child B was in floods of tears saying A had ruined her clothes on purpose.

So, you are Child B's mother. She comes home with paint on her clothes (the evidence, unmistakeable) and cries, saying Child A put paint there on purpose. Is it now ok to head on up to school, find Child A in the playground (where you know they won't have a parent present to help them) and hiss very vague threats in their face?

But why hasn't anyone told the teacher?

At the school I work in, children are supervised. If a child is bullied (which doesn't happen often) the liklely hood is that it would be seen by one of the teachers on break duty or one of the lunchtime supervisors. Then the appropriate teacher would be told.

If it wasn't seen by an adult, the child who had been bullied would hopefully feel confident enough to tell an adult, because it is instilled in the children before there is a problem that this is what they must do. And it is also instilled in the children that if they see another child hitting, kicking, or in any way bullying someone else, then they must speak up on the bullied child's behalf. Again, they are taught, before problems happen, that not saying anything to an adult when they see someone being hurt is almost as bad as doing the hurting yourself.

It is such a big part of the school ethos that every child knows that they stick up for one another, and they tell adults when there are problems. Yes, It does mean that we constantly have to fend off reception and Year 1 and 2 children who tell us minor things that are not really issues, but by the time they are half way through the school, and mostly by the time they are six, they know what is worth reporting and what isn't.

Ah, but Rational - haven't you read the OP's postings on this? It isn't a run-down city in the UK you know. There aren't any drugs problems or anything. Therefore it can't possibly be that this child has any experience of violence or anything. (Violence only happens if you have unemployment, or drugs issues, and only in dodgy areas. Apparently).

But why hasn't anyone told the teacher?

No idea why the child continued with the rest of his lessons without mentioning it but the OP didn't tell the teacher due to a helicopter.

babybythesea, please do not misquote me. You are just trying to cause trouble.

Slave - it has gone through the teacher. Once, as far as I can see.
This latest time, the OP's son did try to tell the teacher, but didn't manage it because other people were talking to her and then the bell went.

It's hardly unheard of for children to not do something the first time they are told (or to carry on doing it after they've been told not to, in this case) but there are quite a few people on here who think that as the child involved did carry on with the behaviour after being told not to, this constitutes a failure by the school to deal with it .

WorraLiberty, you should also read the facts before you post. I have seen the teacher - twice - about this.

Although op shouldn't assume that there might not be violence at home...she was correct about the drug issue.

where she lives the punishment for being caught with drugs is DEATH.

I assume she lives in an EX-PAT community she also knows that no job= go home... we have to accept that.

OP if you were reading my posts, you'd know that I'm aware of that and I was replying to another poster who asked why the teacher didn't know about the second incident on the day....

UnexpectedOrange that is totally different, you witnessed the behaviour, the OP did not.

2 of my children have been bullied but I still think you were totally out of order to do this to a 6 year old.

That's right, Feminine. No drugs. No unemployment. And (presumably) no poverty. It is possible that this child is the victim of violence at home, although I certainly don't get that impression.

"It isn't a run-down city in the UK you know. There aren't any drugs problems or anything. Therefore it can't possibly be that this child has any experience of violence or anything. (Violence only happens if you have unemployment, or drugs issues, and only in dodgy areas. Apparently)."

lol, I did, I was ignoring it.

No one actually mentioned drug use in isolation on the thread. I have no idea why you keep bringing it up feminine

No, I'm not. I was just being a bit tongue in cheek. But, you have emphasized the lack of drugs problems. (Which is good). And the lack of unemployment (also good). But you have also put this together with saying that it is unlikely that there are any issues at home. All I was trying to say was that lack of drugs in an area, and lack of unemployment, does in no way mean that other things don't go on. All I've been trying to get at is that without really knowing the family, you cannot possibly know that.
Again, the only girl I know personally who was abused looked about as far from it as you can imagine - lovely stuff etc. But the stuff was a buy off to stop her telling. It took several years for people to realise there was a problem because surely someone who was clearly so well cared for, with such lovely things always being given to her, couldn't have that sort of problem?

Well.. Ic an;t imagione ever doing it but there is a point at which you ahve tried everything and the choice is leave your child to be bullied or risk upsetting people by dealking with it.

If you felt you were at that stage YANBU.

Well he's certainly now the victim of adult aggression in the playground, isn't he OP?

This is a tough one. When I was 8 I was verbally picked on over a long period of time by another girl in our group of friends. I decided to stop speaking to her and avoided her at school. She told her mother I was leaving her out and I got an extreme bollocking from this woman, in front of other children and parents, who then went round to my mums to yell at her. It's still upsetting to think about. So I agree with others who say it's essential to make sure you have your facts straight before telling off a child. However if he has genuinely been hurting your son, then you acted correctly.

So, I'm guessing you would just allow your child to be a punchbag, unfitmother?