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AIBU?

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Original poster

to be upset at racism accusation due to dd1's comment in town.

598 replies

PrincessScrumpy · 18/11/2011 09:59

dd1 is 3 and said loudly "look mummy that lady has a chocolate face." The woman heard and said " nice to see you training her to be racist already!" I was really shocked. dd didn't mean offence it was an observation that her skin colour was the same as chocolate. She's only met a few people from other races due to us living in the West Country but I've always explained skin colour in the same way as hair and eye colour being different.

She did say it once before about Tiger Woods on TV but I decided to ignore it and not make an issue. dd now is asking what racist is and I don't think a 3yo needs to know - they don't see colour as a issue or feel superior etc. Left me shaken and actally quite cross. I really think the lady was being oversensitive.

OP posts:
ElaineReese · 18/11/2011 11:19

And she didn't 'ask innocently', if you read the OP herself: she 'said loudly'.

Well, my kids wouldn't have said or done that at 3, and if they ever did they would have been talked to about it, and if I were to have started a thread at the time it would have been more on the lines of 'oh fuck, I'm mortified - my 3 year old shouted 'chocolate face' in the street today'. Not just 'that happened, but here's the real issue - woman shouted at her'.

SardineQueen · 18/11/2011 11:19

OP nowhere in her OP says that she was embarrassed/mortified/shocked at what her DD said.

That would be the first thing on my mind if DD said something like this.

whoopeecushion · 18/11/2011 11:20

No SQ, you can't call a person "chocolate face" because you are not 3yo!

SardineQueen · 18/11/2011 11:20

YES elaine

The tone of the OP betrays the truth of the matter

TiarasTimeOutsAndTantrums · 18/11/2011 11:20

DS made the exact same comment on a bus the other day. The woman was lovely though and just laughed at him whilst i was wanting the ground to swallow me up

slavetofilofax · 18/11/2011 11:20

But most people seem to be very quick to decide that the offended woman was totally out of order.

And not prepared for a minute to consider that maybe she had a perfectly valid reason for saying what she did - ie the OPs failure to react

The Op may well not have had a chance to react. Should she has jumped in the second the words were out of her dd's mouth, or should she have taken a moment to think about how to clarly explain to her three yo why she shouldn't say things like that.

The woman did not have valid reason to accuse OP of teaching her child to be racist. As I said before, racism is such an abhorrent thing that no one should be accused of it lightly. Much in the same way as you don't accuse people of rape if they are not rapists.

Considering the woman did make such a strong accusation based on a comment by a small child, it's not a big leap to think that she may have over reacted without giving the OP a chance to say anything.

MmeLindor. · 18/11/2011 11:20

I dunno, Hully.

My DC don't know any black people, aside from the two black children in their school. And as I said, they have never picked up on that. We have only just recently had the conversation about slitty eyes being offensive and the DC are 7yo and 9yo.

I have a don't ask don't tell kind of approach to parenting. I don't say, "Oh, look. Rio Ferdinand is playing football, he is black but is English. It would not be nice to throw bananas at him, like the fuckwit fans are doing, that would be what we call racist".

It just has not come up in conversation.

SardineQueen · 18/11/2011 11:21

according to worra I can, whooppee

Which would indicate that there are at least some people on this thread who don't think that "chocolate face" is fundamentally offensive

Hullygully · 18/11/2011 11:21

slaveto

And the op feels really bad about that, doesn't she?

Oh wait, no she doesn't. She's offended and cross.

Hullygully · 18/11/2011 11:22

And larry. Larry considers it a compliment.

Hullygully · 18/11/2011 11:23

mme L

That's interesting. I would have been jumping up and down and swearing at the telly and going on and on about it!

pigletmania · 18/11/2011 11:23

Elaine it was innocently she is only 3 fgs not 13. Yes she is only little so lacks the social skills like an older child. Yes young children can be loud.

tardisjumper · 18/11/2011 11:23

I'm white, I used to work in a shop when I had very short hair.

I once had a little boy, about 3 come into the shop and point at me and shout at the top of his lungs, 'it's a boy mummy!'. The (short haired) mother looked really embarrassed and kept on hushing him, but he carried on.

Coming out of an older child that would be rude, but coming out of a younger child demonstrates they do things like comment loudly on people's appearance.

worraliberty · 18/11/2011 11:24

Of course Elaine and I don't think it's 'cutesy'

I just think the black woman was lacking in common sense not to give the OP (a complete stranger let's not forget) the benefit of the doubt instead of jumping down her throat like that.

If the OP's child was 6 or 7 for example, I'd agree with the black woman but I just can't in this instance.

When my DS1 was 3yrs old he came out of nursery and said he'd been playing with 'a little brown faced boy'

Now to me, that was a perfectly valid description given his age...but I prompted him to describe him in another way (hoping he'd stick with a new description until he found out his name)

He looked at me confused and said "Well apart from his skin, he looked like all the other boys in school uniform" Confused

I personally found out the boy's name the next day and he used it instead of 'brown faced boy'....but I'd be fuming if a stranger had overheard his innocent description and accused me of teaching him to be racist!

Sorry for typing a novel but I hope I've explained my point Blush

SardineQueen · 18/11/2011 11:24

A lot of people on this thread seem to think that the only way of reacting is verbally.

This is obviously rubbish and facial reactions are pretty much instantaneous.

TBH with a young child indicating a stranger and starting a sentance loudly "look mummy that lady..." would already be looking slightly nervous and what might be about to come out.

porcamiseria · 18/11/2011 11:25

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

SardineQueen · 18/11/2011 11:25

^ yes

hester · 18/11/2011 11:26

Well, none of us were there, and there may have been something in the nuances in the seconds following the comments that is significant.

BUT - yes, it sounds as though the woman was paranoid and rude. Yes, many 3 year olds would make this kind of comment quite innocently. But those of us who are black, or who have black partners and children, also know how exposing it can feel when you venture out of the big cities (and if someone wants to challenge me here on my prejudiced assumptions about rural areas: bring it on).

OP, it must be tempting for you to retreat into defensive indignation on this one, but I would urge you to use it as a constructive trigger for considering how you are preparing your child for a multiracial world. I am constantly surprised at how little my white friends do on this - they often don't notice that their children have no books, no toys, no videos featuring black people. They don't notice that the fairies, princesses, Virgin Maries are all white and blonde-haired. They are bemused by the suggestion that this is something they should be proactive about (their children, in the meantime, pick up very early on that race is something their parents feel uncomfortable discussing, so don't ask questions and draw their own conclusions).

I'm NOT saying this is true of you, OP, but just suggesting you turn the experience into a positive by using it as an MOT trigger.

worraliberty · 18/11/2011 11:26

according to worra I can, whooppee

Sardine please point out my post where I said it was acceptable for an adult to call a black person chocolate face? Hmm

Hullygully · 18/11/2011 11:26

When my ds was two the lift doors opened to reveal an enormous lady.

Ooo, said DS, You are a fat lady! Fat fat fat!

Out of the two of us I don't know who was more horrified, mortified and shamed.

He certainly never said that again.

slavetofilofax · 18/11/2011 11:26

No one is saying Chocolate face isn't offensive. But firstly, that's not what was said, and second, it was a comment made by an innocent three year old. Hardly the same as my 11 year old saying it, or me who is in my thirties.

Why shouldn't the OP be offended and cross. She had just been accused of racism, which is an awful thing to be accused of if you are not racist!

Why do you think she should feel that bad about an innocent observation made by her small child. Slight embarrasment might be appropriate, but 'really bad' is not neccesary.

tethersend · 18/11/2011 11:27

I look forward to Larry standing on Electric avenue, heartily congratulating every black person he meets with "Hello, chocolate face" and a firm handshake.

Runoutofideas · 18/11/2011 11:28

I think children can only react to things dependent on what is within their current frame of reference and it is up to us, as parents, to widen that frame of reference as it becomes necessary - which seems to be now in the OP's case.

My dd is in a class with a number of British Asian Muslim children. We had to have a bit of a chat when she described a new girl as having "muslim coloured skin"! As far as she was concerned (aged 6) muslim people had Asian skin tones. All it required was a bit of honest explanation.

I have also found "People normally look like a mixture of their mummy and daddy" quite handy when discussing her mixed race friends' appearances. I think it is pointless to say children are colour blind. They are not. They notice differences and discuss them. As long as this is done in a positive, non-derogatory way then I don't see the problem.

Hullygully · 18/11/2011 11:30

won't that be a chuckle, tethers!

Dipdap · 18/11/2011 11:30

My daughter is mixed race, and 3yrs old, I'd be quite upset if another child called her 'chocolate face'. Though I'd understand the innocence of the statement, I'd be fully expecting the parent to pull the child up on it, if he/she didn't then I'd be tempted to say something myself. Probably not to the extent of the lady OP encountered but by matter of principle, something should be said.

Porcamiseria is right, just because 'chocolate' is nice, you can't allow your child to go round describing people in that way and think its acceptable.