to be upset at racism accusation due to dd1's comment in town.

[PrincessScrumpy]

dd1 is 3 and said loudly "look mummy that lady has a chocolate face." The woman heard and said " nice to see you training her to be racist already!" I was really shocked. dd didn't mean offence it was an observation that her skin colour was the same as chocolate. She's only met a few people from other races due to us living in the West Country but I've always explained skin colour in the same way as hair and eye colour being different.

She did say it once before about Tiger Woods on TV but I decided to ignore it and not make an issue. dd now is asking what racist is and I don't think a 3yo needs to know - they don't see colour as a issue or feel superior etc. Left me shaken and actally quite cross. I really think the lady was being oversensitive.

oldenglishspangles,

But the comment was NOT racist. It was a child making an observation.
A child comparing brown skin to chocolate is not an insult - its not derrogatory. The child did not say anything negative about the woman - and even if she did - she is 3 yrs old for goodness sake.

Its getting to the point that people have lost all common sense.

racism is learned behaviour, whether that racism is intended or accidential is irrelevent. Only by taking a zero tolerance approach can we expect to change that.

I have heard Black people say that some white people are ridiculoulsy careful around what they say infront of them.
If you are NOT being offensive or have no wish to upset anyone, how the hell do you know what every single black person will find offensive ???

Many years ago ( well,.. the 70s) there was a group called Hot chocolate - They were all black. Did they choose that name because they were black ?
Was it Because they were warm and comforting ?
Was it just a name they pulled out of a hat ?
Are they allowed to use that name but white people were not allowed to call them that ?
Were they a disgrace to choose that name ?

Davesmum, I apologise, had I known you were a fully paid up member of 'black people like us.com' I would never have questioned you. You are of course right on every point. A quick search seems to indicate that Mavis Smith at Apple Corp named the band Hot Chocolate...

And there are some seriously hysterical people on here as well, bringing up slavery and ancient injustices (in a quite juvenile manner) and questioning if readers have heard of the past.

Read what happened in the OP's AIBU, for goodness sake.

A 3 year old child made a remark and it was pounced upon by the woman who verbally attacked the child's mother - who let's not forget was mortified by the suggestion of racism; indeed she tells us she was " shocked " and " shaken " by the encounter.

I don't think I should have been shocked or shaken by such a reaction, the woman would have had a fairly swift and pointed reply from me instead.

As for the contributor who ".. Forgot to say that I have quite a lot of experience of west country 'local' and have found it one of the more racially offensive areas, beaten only by a certain town in the north west ..." well I can't speak for Bristol or Somerset or Devon or Dorset or Gloucestershire or Wiltshire or indeed East Cornwall because that is what comprises the 'West Country' - a large area with millons of peple so your so-called ".. quite a lot of experience .." must have involved a huge number of encounters.

oldenglishspangles,

Mavis Smith is obviously a racist. How on earth did she get away with it ? ;-)

Pendeen the voice of reason.

Davsmum - a very good point about Hot Chocolate. How did they get away with that?

For what it's worth I am sure you're not racist. However I believe you should have reprimanded your 3 year old for saying such a thing, both about Tiger Woods and the lady in town. Just something simple like "That's not a nice thing to say, you mustn't say that again" would be fine.

Sure she doesn't know it's wrong, but that's why you must educate her on the fact that it IS wrong and would be hurtful to the person it's directed to.

I suspect some of you recent posters have missed the Urban Dictionary quote earlier on this thread which stated that 'chocolate face' is a colloquial insult akin to coon/ jungle bunny, etc. Clearly some of you had no idea about this - right? So the girl's words were the equivalent of saying 'look mummy, there's a jungle bunny'. Can you see now why that might raise a black person's hackles?

Pendeen, I suspect you read the first part of my post mentioning slavery, got all tetchy, skim-read the rest of it and so spectacularly missed the point. Nice work!

Wow, babybarrister, that must have been mortifying. I have to say that if I were the BG man, no matter how much you explained, I would have a very hard time not seeing the home environment as the cause of what your son said. But I think that's the case with any 'innocently appalling' behaviour from young children, not just race-related stuff. However, I shall give your story some thought. It is awful to wrongly brand someone a racist, as I said here days ago (that's for the benefit of anyone who hoiked their bosom just then ), and at the same time, this stuff does come from somewhere, so it's vital to ask from where.

Spangles, you are right! I shall leave this thread. Ignorance, whether wilful or unintentional, is so very depressing.

Oh FGS, we are a black family and I cannot imagine any of us taking offence at anything a 3 yr old would say! Ridiculous.

I believe you should have reprimanded your 3 year old for saying such a thing, both about Tiger Woods and the lady in town. Just something simple like "That's not a nice thing to say, you mustn't say that again" would be fine.

Do make sure you explain that it's sometimes OK to say someone is 'sweet', though, OP. Or that they have a 'sweet face'.

mumbrane - the voice of reason! There are unpleasant and confrontational people in all sections of society unfortunately.

MayaAngelCool - I mentioned this thread to a Nigerian friend and as I suspected she was appalled at the woman behaving that way in front of a 3 year old child. In fact she said that the 3 year old may have an unfortunate view of black people as a result!! Now wouldn't that be a shame - and perhaps something that you might consider when you react to remarks that you perceive as racist when clearly they are not meant in that way by one so young.

Children just say the weirdest shit. Our youngest child grew up Asia, went to school with mostly Chinese, indian and Japanese kids. Most of our closest friends were of Chinese origin. Moving back and on mentioning that they could go back to their old school, they looked worried and to our surprise said, "no rather not, too many chinese people there." We were gobsmacked, you really can't account for much of what comes out young kids mouths.

fortyplus, how is mumbrane the voice of reason? Do you really believe that black people should not respond to racist abuse or comments for fear of upsetting a rude white child? It's a good scam you and your 'Nigerian friend' have, blame the victim of abuse not the abuser.

mumbrane, you don't have to take offence if you don't want to, but I would tell a child not to be so rude.

She wasn't a 'rude' white child - just a child being a child.

I think everyone should RESPOND to REAL Racist comments - RESPOND, being the correct way - not REACT like that silly woman did.

If I had been the OP I would certainly have responded to the woman by telling her not to take her own insecurities out on me or my child.

can you tell me what a real racist comment is then? the person suffering the abuse clearly isn't qualified, by your estimation, to know what is happening to them. Please tell me what you permit me to feel offended by. the child was rude and should have been told to keep it's comments to itself.

You can FEEL offended by whatever you like - that is not mine or any one else's business.
If the 'child' had been a teenager - it could possibly have been intended as a racist comment. The child was 3 yrs old.
When you start labelling an innocent child who thinks brown skin looks like chocolate, as a racist or a racist in training - you have become a victim of the highest order - and I suspect you enjoy the victim status.

Sozzled and BabyBarrister,

I had posted earlier (and another poster has has well), that research shows that children by the age of three not only notice colour differences, but already start attaching value judgments to these.

Why do children at the age (black and white) select white faces as being more desirable than other races? Where does prejudice come from? First call is family. But it could equally be peers at school, books, media (e.g., only see white faces in powerful positions), jokes about races, using terms which are patronizing about others e.g., referring to a whole group of people as "chocolate face, or brown skinned", while referring to people of your own race as individuals, e.g., Aunt Sally, Peter's mom etc.

Studies point out that if no one talks to the child openly and frankly about prejudice, a child could grow up thinking that this is the way it is supposed to be, and that people who have been discriminated against deserve this treatment because they are inferior in some way.

It seems that children who have poor self-images are more vulnerable to developing prejudices. They may try to bolster their own worth by finding a group of people whom they can put down. An insecure child might think, I may not be very good but I am better than those people

So many people who are good for nothing and moochers in society are racist, because it gives them a psychological boost to put people down and feel important and powerful.

So why wouldn't you ask your child frankly, "why don't you like black men" and have an open discussion on race and prejudice. Same for the Chinese school children example.

Why do we assume that children age there and four are 'innocent' and not capable of absorbing prejudices? Of course they can, and if no one talks frankly and openly, they will just continue having these prejudices. BabyB, for example, your child may have black friends, but may still feel 'superior' to them and it could make him feel good about himself, an 'alpha male'. Why don't you have a frank chat and see what is going on?

Yes,..children notice differences and its important to talk about how people are different and the value that has for society. If the child can comment - its certainly time to reinforce positive values.
However, those values can be damaged if adults overreact and become hostile to what was a naive and innocent comment.
Very young Childern learn more from watching our reactions to everything more than from what we say.
If you say one thing - but feel another thing - a child is not fooled.

my child had never spoken negatively about any race or about skin colour, he was in the minority being white I think perhaps he felt a bit self conscious, maybe his differences were sometimes pointed out by the other children, they were definitely commented on by the adults to the point of being stared at, followed, photographed and picked up by strangers. I don't see why you have to talk to a very young child openly about different races (unless they ask) and prejudices unless they bring it up. Now they are older we talk about it, issues like racism, slavery, holocaust ect are now starting to be discussed.

yes Davsmum, people who are victims of abuse or crime really enjoy it. you'll be telling me next that i have a chip on my shoulder. from the age of three children begin to understand that other people exist and their feelings should be considered, that's why you should tell them off when they are rude to others. that is common sense.

don't think anyone has said otherwise.

sozzledchops, yes they have. there has been a whole list of posters claiming that the comments were nothing to get upset about when the comment was rude and warranted a reaction. it ended up with some people stating that the reaction would cause the child to grow up with a negative view of black people thereby putting the victim in the wrong. there are always posters who have a 'black friend' who would accept crap treatment to keep the peace.

Creighton,
No they don't enjoy abuse - but SOME people take up the victim mantle - it becomes who they are ! They are oversensitive to even the slightest comment whether any malice was intended.
Thats what I mean about enjoying feeling victimised !
On this occasion the woman was NOT a victim of abuse.
The child was not being malicious or naughty or intending any harm. WHy would you tell the child off ?? You talk to the child about differences in a calm and natural way. Its an opportunity to educate.
Its a pity the 'Victim' did not see it like that instead of being so hostile.