to be upset at racism accusation due to dd1's comment in town.

[PrincessScrumpy]

dd1 is 3 and said loudly "look mummy that lady has a chocolate face." The woman heard and said " nice to see you training her to be racist already!" I was really shocked. dd didn't mean offence it was an observation that her skin colour was the same as chocolate. She's only met a few people from other races due to us living in the West Country but I've always explained skin colour in the same way as hair and eye colour being different.

She did say it once before about Tiger Woods on TV but I decided to ignore it and not make an issue. dd now is asking what racist is and I don't think a 3yo needs to know - they don't see colour as a issue or feel superior etc. Left me shaken and actally quite cross. I really think the lady was being oversensitive.

ime three year olds will say the darnest things, but i've yet to meet one who went out of their way to be racist. Imo three year olds are practically still babies. Saying the lady had a chocolate face, im pretty sure the toddler just meant that her face is the same colour as chocolate, and id be more critical and highly suspicious of a grown up who took offence at something a three year would say. Im half asian and have tanned skin and if a three year old commented that my skin looked like idk a caramac (i dont even think you get these any more lol) id smile at the innocence of the comment.

I would not presume to dictate to you how you "prepare your niece" however your statement is still incorrect although it may be as a result of naivety or ignorance.

Yes, Pendeen, I am ignorant to say the UK is becoming increasingly multicultural even if the statistics fully support this.

And of course, everyone should just accommodate dc's boorish comments and say "how cute", because it is not the parents job to educate their children.

Ooooh caramacs are my favourite & you can still get them - I'd love skin that colour.
My skin colour resembles that of an uncooked roast chicken :(

Capricorn76 - The child is 3 years old !
Children say what they see. Of course we teach them about people's feelings and not to be rude, but a 3yr old making that comment is not rude and it does not mean her mother is teaching her to be racist.
If a grown woman can get 'offended' by that remark by a 3 yr old,.. there is something wrong with the woman and HER comment to the OP was rude and totally out of order.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with noticing differences and a child WILL learn not to say things out loud as they are taught not to.

Adults should learn not to be so sensitive. I wouldn't give a toss what someone said about me, I wouldn't be that immature.

flatbread

If you believe those statistics are only open to one interpretation and fully support your use of the word "we" then yes you are probably ignorant.

Calling a 3 year old "boorish" for using a word like "chocolate" is not particularly bright either.

I have seen lots of stills and moving pictures of mountains. I see them in books and read about them a lot because I like them. I was still stared when I saw one "in the flesh" for the first time recently, and said very stupid things like "wow, it's really really big" and "that one looks like an ice-cream". This was possibly highly annoying to the people who live in the valley below the mountains.

My point is that exposing children to images, discussion etc of other skin colours doesn't stop them staring and commenting when they experience them in person. A kid saying something wildly inappropriate does not imply that the parent has not made efforts to normalise differences.

I was a volunteer on a primary school outing ages ago when my hair was very dark (I wish it were now but it wouldn't look right. I have a mole at the side of the chin on my fair skinned face and dark hairs grew out it (the mole). One small child warned me, "Miss, you have a spider on your face." I thought it was hilarious but told him that I wasn't frightened of spiders.

You should have talked about it the first time she said it.
If you continue to ignore remarks that she makes that are potentially offensive, you'll have a problem on your hands.

She is old enough to have different skin colours explained to her, surprised she has only ever seen one black person, on tv. Do you not have picture books or anything with different coloured people in that you could use to explain to her?

The child was being innocent. It would have been different if the child had used the N word or something, or said I do not like black people. But she was just making an observation of something that was different to her.

I know it is very different, but I recently read an article about a policeman who is about seven foot, and constantly has tourists asking for photos next to big ben. Are they being discriminatory, should he shout at them. Also I know blonde people who have gone to countries like China and have had children run up and ask to touch their hair, or ask for a photo. One of my friends from China said she used to love doing this whenever she saw a white person as a child. They do not mean to be racist, they are just children.
People are different, and we should celebrate that, not ignore it and try to pretend we all look the same.

For goodness sake - Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill !
Saying someone's skin looks like chocolate is not racist - Its not offensive.
People are told their skin is like alabaster - Writers describe skin colouring using words like chocolate or milk etc.

The world is a sad place when people attach racism to a child's comment.
My nephew asked me why a lady was 'so fat' - He was 3. It was embarrassing, yes, but its the sort of question kids will ask. He didn't know its embarrassing or that grown ups have hang-ups.
Of course I had a word with him to tell him its not kind to make comments out loud about people - but it takes many time sof telling before kids understand it.
We can't go blaming kids for noticing things about us.

To those posters who are saying OP should have used Tiger Woods/TV 'opportunity' to try and explain PC etiquette to a tiny DC:
do you really think that a 3yo (or younger) would understand this and have the capacity to filter/censor what she says about the world around her in this way? She wasn't being 'nasty' or mean, nor was she repeating racist language. And it wouldn't help any 3yo's understanding of the world to over complicate their experience of it in this way.

Oh come on...

She wasn't being 'nasty' or mean, nor was she repeating racist language. And it wouldn't help any 3yo's understanding of the world to over complicate their experience of it in this way.

It's maybe slightly unfortunate that DC said this, but clearly she meant no offence - it was an entirely innocent 3 yo's remark. Not 'racist' at all.

Perhaps the woman was having a bad day, perhaps she has had bad past experiences.

Yes, if older children said this then it might be reasonable to expect that a parent had taught them to be more self-aware - but at 3? I don't think so!

OP, I completely understand why you feel hurt and shocked, but you haven't done anything wrong.

ok ive read a bit of the thread but not all.

obviously we should correct our children when they comment on others appearance but sometimes i think most of us will ignor a comment directed at the tv hoping the child wouldn't repeat it.

ds is 5 yo and when he was at nursery used to describe coloured children as having 'brown skin' i personally can't see the huge difference between that and 'chocolate face/skin' especially when coming from a 3 yo. I chatted with ds and told him that everyone has different coloured skin and it's not a nice way to describe somebody and he came back at me saying 'but you describe people by their different coloured hair' which is true i had previously.

TBH i don;t know the right or wrong answer, obviously commenting on strangers appearance isn't the best but I think the majority of people have had a situation like that and wouldn't expect to he called racist or accused of teaching racism to a 3yo.

I think i would be pretty angry too OP i think YANBU

It is not up to us to judge what another ethnicity/race finds offensive or not. And for the people who say they went to China/Japan and were touched etc. by children there, were you there as visitors/ short-term residents or citizens? The lady might have been a British citizen, third generation or whatever, and may not have appreciated being treated like an exotic zoo animal in her own country.

Anyway, everything is about context, if the child went up to the lady and asked "why is your skin darker than mine/ why is it the colour of chocolate?", chances are the lady would have been fine and explained it. Saying something like "hey look, a chocolate face" is not really on, especially when the term 'chocolate face' seems to be the current equivalent of 'darkie' (ashamed to say my dad used this term back in the days ). It is up to the mother to have handled the situation better.

I bet if I said "look mummy, a darkie" when I was three, it would probably be because I had heard that term at home. My parents are not racist, but are ignorant regarding this. One thing I do know, if a black person had called them out and indicated that it is racist, they would have been suitably ashamed and not been writing AIBUs trying to justify themselves.

It is not up to us to judge what another ethnicity/race finds offensive or not

Who is the 'us'? The MN community? White people? Black people? People in general?

Not having a go, just wondered who you mean by "us" and "another".

Folkgirl, "us" in this case are Caucasians and Asians and others who are not of black African descent and have not experienced the discrimination and brutality they have suffered based on the colour of their skin.

oh come on this thread is depressing.

What is wrong with describing someone by the way they look. It is used in every walk of life including the police - White male or Black male or Asian Male etc.

Now a child of 3 discribing a person as having a chocolate face is just that, discribing what they see.

If my child had said that i wonder what I would of said, something like yes it is simialr the same as we (i have mediterainian skin, my boys are more whiter, blonde, pailer) has skin like X.

It is just discriptive.

I am saddend that more people have not picked up the other person as beeing openly racist or can they not be with being black, brown or what ever shade they are?

This whole post is just silly.

flatbreadMon 21-Nov-11 15:45:17

Folkgirl, "us" in this case are Caucasians and Asians and others who are not of black African descent and have not experienced the discrimination and brutality they have suffered based on the colour of their skin.

I am sure many White & Asian people have also suffered racist comments due to the colour of their skin, so your point is lost.

To those posters who are saying OP should have used Tiger Woods/TV 'opportunity' to try and explain PC etiquette to a tiny DC:
do you really think that a 3yo (or younger) would understand this and have the capacity to filter/censor what she says about the world around her in this way?

Actually yes, studies have shown that they do. By the age of two, children easily group based on colour and by three, they start attaching value judgement, based on family, environmental ,media messages.

In a fascinating study, black and white toddlers were shown pictures of children their age and asked which ones they 'liked'. Those under one, picked randomly. The toddlers aged two chose predominantly within their own racial group. At the age of three, both black and white toddlers chose predominantly white children.

It seems, the worst thing you can do is not talk about race with your kids or say "shhh", as if it is an embarrassing or a taboo subject.

What researchers recommend is having friends of different races so that children are exposed to this within their home environment

If that is not possible, when they are very young, introduce them to different races through dolls/books and emphasize how people are different from outside but the same inside.

From the age of 3 onwards, introduce the subject of inequality and racism and how this is something based in society and history, in age appropriate language. Children this age do seem to understand subtle messages of social hierarchy, and if parents don't discuss this openly, kids will absorb it from their environment. There is a fairly strong body of research supporting this approach.

I haven't read all of the posts, but I liked what f slipper put. You really have to look at this at all angles, OP. Of course you're daughter wasn't being racist but like others on here have said, the woman concerned may have had racist experiences which have made her sensitive.

On the other hand, you're daughter could have called her a lot worse. I suppose the woman was embarrassed because she said it loudly. When I was at school, it was the sheer embarrassment of people being able to hear me being called chocolate drop (lol) et al, that got to me. I always wished that if they were going to call me names, they would whisper them to me - but I guess that defeated the object. I was never actually bothered by the names though. I have said to my kids, ever since they were younger, that it's part and parcel of being black to be given a bit of abuse. I know it sounds harsh to say that, but I don't want them to be overly sensitive going through life. It is ok to talk about skin colour. It is ok to talk about black and white people.

It's a shame OP, because it seems like she was offended by your daughter's innocent remark and you were offended by her remark. It sounds like a misunderstanding. Some people always think the worst, black and white.

My husband calls me his chocolate queen but says I taste better than chocolate .

So why not wait until DCs are over 3 to discuss race, as supported by the study you refer to, Flatbread?

I'm guessing that OP's DC rather likes chocolate, though I could be wrong...

And I didn't advocate 'not talking about race', I pointed out that her comment was apparently not 'racist'.

My god there are some seriously ignorant posts on this thread. It looks like some of you have no idea that there is a history of hundreds of years of vicious racist abuse against black people because of our skin colour. Have any of you heard about that stuff? Heard of something called slavery? And have you heard that racist abuse does still go on in the present day, did you know that?

So...with all of that in mind, when somebody (regardless of who it is) uses a term which has been used in a perjorative way against black people, we still carry the weight of all those years of oppression, injustice, murderous attacks, rape, present day abuse, etc, and the first thing we ask ourselves is "Is this another example of what has been done to my people for centuries? If yes, what do I do about it?". As a child in the UK I was called a whore, a wog, a monkey - purely because of my skin colour. As an adult I have had strangers shout abuse at me in the streets then run away laughing - cowardly as well as stupid. I have been thumped in the back by a skinhead whilst living in a foreign country. I don't hold any of that experience against anyone today, but damn right if I hear someone using a term that could be offensive, I am going to ask why.

To compare that to a white person being described as alabaster - wtf? Has 'alabaster' been widely used as a term of racist abuse? Have I missed that part of history where it was white people being abused, humiliated, degraded, raped and killed by black people because of their skin colour? It is NOT the same. If a white person plans to visit a country where you are an ethnic minority, do you ask yourself whether you might be set upon, attacked, even killed, because you are white? If the answer to all these questions is yes, then I apologise. But if it is no, then your problem is your extremely limited knowledge and experience of what life is like for black people.

Most - of us rub along just fine, getting on with building careers and families and having fun just the same as anyone else. But the moment something comes along that bears any resonance to the sorry history which our ancestors lived through, we have to ask ourselves what is going on here, for our own self-esteem and preservation.

If a white person plans to visit a country where you are an ethnic minority, do you ask yourself whether you might be set upon, attacked, even killed, because you are white?

Actually, there are parts of the world where that happens.

Zeno - good post and very good point.

MayaAngelCool - all that you say is true, yet none of it can be offered as an excuse for a grown woman to speak so rudely to the op in front of her 3yo daughter. Any sane person would realise that the child's remark, whilst inappropriate, was innocent and needed only gentle correction by the parent.