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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to be upset at racism accusation due to dd1's comment in town.

598 replies

PrincessScrumpy · 18/11/2011 09:59

dd1 is 3 and said loudly "look mummy that lady has a chocolate face." The woman heard and said " nice to see you training her to be racist already!" I was really shocked. dd didn't mean offence it was an observation that her skin colour was the same as chocolate. She's only met a few people from other races due to us living in the West Country but I've always explained skin colour in the same way as hair and eye colour being different.

She did say it once before about Tiger Woods on TV but I decided to ignore it and not make an issue. dd now is asking what racist is and I don't think a 3yo needs to know - they don't see colour as a issue or feel superior etc. Left me shaken and actally quite cross. I really think the lady was being oversensitive.

OP posts:
Capricorn76 · 18/11/2011 14:20

This reminds me of when I was about 5 and this boy who lived round corner who was about 12 came up to me, poked me and told me I was a 'battyman'. I didn't know what it meant, he wouldn't tell me (probabaly didn't know either) so I ran home crying to my dad who also didn't know what it meant or maybe didn't want to tell me. I didn't find out till years later that it was an offensive term for gay men. I was a 5 year old girl! Don't know where he got it from either as it's an offensive Jamaican term and we lived in an all-white area and the boys parents were Irish and deaf.

MrsHeffley · 18/11/2011 14:20

Hmmmm I may have done all that if I'd been given the chance but sorry after being accused of being racist in public I'm not sure what the op could have done.

Also as I said 3 year olds will do the pointing thing over and over again.As I said there are plenty of other ways one can deal with this.

The offended lady must surely know what 3 year olds of all races are like and completely over reacted.

FreudianSlipper · 18/11/2011 14:21

dancingmustard so those comments do not offend you but if you being a white person meant that you are more likely to be searched by police, that your parents came over here to work and were treated terribly and had racial abuse thrown at them every day, if you grandparents were slaves, if you had to put up with the constant so called jokes about your skin when really it is a put down, when you know that people judge your personality purely on you skin colour then just then you might feel on top of all this offended by the odd remark but you do not becasue you are white

i wish i was shocked by the ignorance shown on this thread but sadly i am not

handbagCrab · 18/11/2011 14:25

If you think a child is to young to consciously know what they said is inappropriate then surely it is your job as the parent to apologise to the recipient of said inappropriate comment? And then educate your child about commenting on others appearances and how it can upset. I suppose the issue is, is whether the parent understands that the comment is inappropriate. In this case, probably not.

And with anything like this it is how the recipient feels about the comment rather than whether it was meant to be deliberately offensive. And it's clear in the op the recipient was directing herself at the mum, not the daughter, which I think is fair enough.

MrsHeffley · 18/11/2011 14:31

"people judge your personality on skin colour" maybe where you live Freudian but not where I live and where has anybody said on this thread that all you have listed is ok?

Also I'm not so sure all black people would be offended by a 3 year old describing their face as chocolate.A 3 year old hurling abuse maybe but making an observation no.

Nearly everybody has said it's unacceptable but what 3 year olds do and needs to be dealt with. The op wasn't given a chance to deal with it then and there so that does not make her a racist.

Sorry far too much competitive anti racism on this thread not ignorance.

ElaineReese · 18/11/2011 14:33

Yes, dancingmustard and if my child 'said loudly' 'Look mummy that lady's as red as a lobster' my first and main and possibly only response would be to be mortified. OP is not.

FreudianSlipper · 18/11/2011 14:35

so a black person or asian person is never judged on their skin colour

really wow i learn something new everyday

and where do you live MrsH? London?

TheEvilTwin · 18/11/2011 14:36

Can I just say it again: the problem is the OP's reaction. Both to her daughter, the woman and on here. A bit of embarrassment or an apology would make all the difference.

I hate these MN race threads because they show how many people just can't be bothered to understand the experiences of people who are black or mixed race.

Cheering on Hully, Porca, Freudian, SQ and all the other voices of reason here.

flatbread · 18/11/2011 14:36

This person was wrong to scream racist at the op and some people on this thread haven't got a clue what racism really is

yes, dancing and you really know what racism is. People do not first identify you as 'neon legs'. First of all you are a person, just like someone else. If someone sees you and immediately thinks of you as a 'chocolate face' or a 'black' or a 'paki', there is clearly something wrong, as they do not see you as a person like them, but as a past of 'another' group.

Capricorn76 · 18/11/2011 14:37

Thanks FreudianSlipper. I'm sure that if since she was a child Dancingmustard was told that her skin looked like poo/dirty, her hair looked like pubes, she was a potential criminal,to go back where she came from, she came from the jungle and likes bananas, her features are ugly, rubber lips, frizzy hair is horrid/messy and needs to be tamed, strangers just reaching out and touching her hair without asking, her people were nothing more than slaves, feeling unwelcome in many places etc she may then take a bit more offence even to something as apparently minor as 'chocolate face'. I'm mixed race and have had these type of things thrown at me even when I was a small kid by adults (the joys of 70s and 80s UK).

Constant drip drip drip of racism will make you more sensitive to even unintentional racism. I can imagine it would be similar if I was fat and had people constantly making fat jokes as if I was subhuman. A child then calling me fatty would probably make me cry. Similarly if I was the only woman in a place of work and the men constantly made sexist jokes, made me do menial tasks etc I would probably end up decking someone for something as trivial as calling me 'darlin' one day.

flatbread · 18/11/2011 14:38

part, not past Blush

Capricorn76 · 18/11/2011 14:42

Forgot to add other kids telling you that their parents won't let them play with you because you're not white. That actually happened to me more than once.

DamnBamboo · 18/11/2011 14:43

I would be very unhappy if any of my children said that.
We lived in a very white area in Surrey and when DS1,aged 3 at the time, was at nursery, he corrected a little boy who referred to a brown-skinned person as being a "chocolate baby" by telling him that he was a chocolate baby, he just had different coloured skin.

He was 3 and lived in a predominantly white area and he knew it was a wrong thing to say.

Thing is, I don't know how he knew it, because I don't ever remember having the conversation with him, although I vaguely remember him being interested in Sid on Cbeebies and why he was dark.

To call somebody chocolate face, is offensive and inappropriate. OP needsto have a chat with her child and her. What would she say if she saw a disabled person with physical disabilities? "Oh mummy look, they've got funny, bendy legs" or something similar? It's your job to teach her right from wrong, so get on with it.

DamnBamboo · 18/11/2011 14:44

he wasn't a chocolate baby

MrsHeffley · 18/11/2011 14:47

I think some people are forgetting the op.A 3 year old described a face as chocolate.Sensitivity understandable but it was a 3 year old and the mother wasn't given a chance.

ohanotherone · 18/11/2011 14:51

Freudianslipper - "if you grandparents were slaves".....

Then they would be very, very old indeed as slavery was abolished in 1833. That's 179 years ago!

FreudianSlipper · 18/11/2011 14:51

how long does it take to say no

if she had said no blah blah blah then would she have got the same respose i very much doubt it but she choose to not say anything neither did she seem bothered that the women felt offended

Capricorn76 · 18/11/2011 14:52

How do you know she wasn't given a chance MrsHeffley? From her OP it didn't sound as if she was mortified or reacted. She said herself that her DD had said it before and her reponse was to do nothing. It sounds like she didn't do anything and is angry at the woman for being upset.

TheEvilTwin · 18/11/2011 14:56

Sorry, I don't buy the "wasn't given a chance" line. Of course OP reacted - by not saying anything. There wasn't some kind of magic two second window in which she had to respond. She could have said something after the woman spoke.

If my children unintentionally offended a stranger, I would apologise even after the sarky comment. No question. And I wouldn't be cross and defensive about it on here.

MrsHeffley · 18/11/2011 14:57

I wouldn't have said "no".I'd have simply said "and you have freckles,we're all different"-is that ok or am I a racist too? Hmm

flatbread · 18/11/2011 14:57

I think some people are forgetting the op.A 3 year old described a face as chocolate.Sensitivity understandable but it was a 3 year old and the mother wasn't given a chance

The mother was given a chance .

First, when dd said it regarding Tiger Woods, OP could have corrected her.

Second when dd said it to the lady, OP could have indicated her dismay with her facial expressions.

Third, when the lady retorted, OP could have engaged in conversation and taken it as an opportunity to engage and ease the situation.

Fourth, she could have been more self-critical and reflective in her post here, and learnt something from the experience rather than huffing.

AngelofTheLordiscomingDown · 18/11/2011 14:57

This is all a fuss about nothing in my opinion.

Hullygully · 18/11/2011 15:01

Yes. All stop talking about it. It's nothing. The Lord's Angel has spoken.

FreudianSlipper · 18/11/2011 15:01

ok great great great and so on

white masters men still owned the land and people had to work for very little is that better :)

WilsonFrickett · 18/11/2011 15:02

Exactly flatbread. No-one is saying the child is racist, she's 3 FGS, but there is lots that could have been done before and after by the OP who instead chose to focus on how outrageous it was that a black woman wasn't delighted to be pointed at and described as having a chocolate face by her precious DD.

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