to be upset at racism accusation due to dd1's comment in town.

[PrincessScrumpy]

dd1 is 3 and said loudly "look mummy that lady has a chocolate face." The woman heard and said " nice to see you training her to be racist already!" I was really shocked. dd didn't mean offence it was an observation that her skin colour was the same as chocolate. She's only met a few people from other races due to us living in the West Country but I've always explained skin colour in the same way as hair and eye colour being different.

She did say it once before about Tiger Woods on TV but I decided to ignore it and not make an issue. dd now is asking what racist is and I don't think a 3yo needs to know - they don't see colour as a issue or feel superior etc. Left me shaken and actally quite cross. I really think the lady was being oversensitive.

In fact all of mine started noticing differences at around three: gender, ethnicity, preference for my little pony colours...

The question is: why is it racist to make an observation about the colour of a person's skin? I've read a lot of books by black writers, and they'll often describe a person's skin by describing it as being "coffee-coloured" or "like ebony" - the point being that dark skin comes in many different shades, so they're trying to give you an accurate picture.

If the little girl had said something like "That person is black, and we hate black people, don't we?" then that would have been obviously racist and obviously something she'd learnt from adults. But as a three-year old who just hasn't learnt to self-censor, she's just saying what she sees, isn't she? In the same way, a black child who hadn't seen many white people might make a comment about a white person's skin colour.

Sorry did I miss a post saying op did nothing,genuine question?It just sounded as if the lady jumped in before she had a chance to deal with it.

Sometimes you can't deal with big issues that very second. Also reading books,providing toys and having family discussions at a later date can deal with this. Maybe the op was planning on a quiet chat later.

ah porc, you can say it a million times but the "but a child just says these things" comments will appear forever.

My brother said this to a lady on a bus in Birmingham ,many years ago, he was about three ,the lady laughed when my mum apologised , like your DD ,we lived in area with maybe one or two people from different races . My brother is now 30 and engaged to a lovely girl , who is of indian origin and sikh. Never know how to describe her ,other than drop dead gorgeous , i look like i should be harpooned in comparison to her , but she is British . Does anyone else struggle with it ? Live in fear of saying the wrong thing .

MrsHeffley

A chat later may serve for next time but if you have offended someone it isn't great to just file it for later.

If someones child is rude about my ds I admit, I want to see them react. Otherwise how do I know that these are not the people who shout stuff in the street?

That lady has a chocolate face is not racist, when said by a three year old. People may find it offensive but it's not racist. 'Racist' implies a superiority of one race or another, this comment does not.

Sardine Queen, where the fuck did I say that I wouldn't apologise if my child offended someone?

My post was about how I would react if my child said something that could be construed as offensive. I would not have hysterics and make a big deal about it, I would calmly explain the situation.

Nowhere in my example does it say that the lady heard me. Of course my mum would have apologised if she had turned around.

Please read what I've written, not what you want to see.

well frumpet you only have to look at yeterdays hair debate to see who gets offended

I agree with a 6 year old(I've frequently told dd off for not saying hello loud enough when people speak to her)but a 3 year old?Also it sounds as if the lady was scolded before she got a chance to say anything.If you've just been accused of being racist,scolding ones child would go completely out of your head.I'd be quite shaken.

And children do just say things....

And until they do you can't expect to cover all fucking bases. People are a whole word of difference.

"My dd wanted a doll with a "brown face and bobbly,puffy hair" at that age which I duly got for her after explaining that it was unacceptable to talk like that."

Is there really anything that wrong with a 3 yr old saying that? I guess this is where many of us struggle as it does seem to be a bit of a minefield. My son described his friend at preschool as the boy with the brown face when I asked him who he had played with that day as he hadn't learned their names yet but explained that some people have darker skins that others to protect them from the sun etc. I just think for someone just turned 3, the whole racist thing quite a difficult conversation to have, especially as the child might be noticing the differences in skin colour but not thinking of it in a negative way, guess I didn't want to suggest that there could be anything negative in having a different skin colour.

Oh come on Kritq, no child would actually call a gay man a 'faggot' unless they had been taught it because gay blokes dont look like strange balls of meat! The chocolate thing is different.

Also the stomping on the foot analogy only works to an extent. Yes if a child accidentally stomped on my foot, I would be hurt. However, I would not say to their parent, 'nice to see that you have been teaching your child to be violent', would I?

And finally, where has it been implied that the OP's daughter in any way thinks that she is more important than a black person?

I do agree that the OP could probably do more to ensure that her DD does not say something like that again, but I do not think that is the only issue here. She is NBU to feel a bit upset at being accused of teaching her child to be racist, before she even got a chance to apologise.

I'd be very surprised if there were many three year olds with the capability of clear recall a while after an incident has happened. By the time they've got home, more than likely the memory would be foggy or gone.

Like lots of people are saying, it's not about the DC being 'a racist' but about the lack of embarrassment or reaction to what was said. The woman challenged the OP, not the child, which to me says she holds the adult responsible, not the child.

Hopefully the OP will come back and maybe we will discover that something was said at the time.

I was talking about this this morning.I remember ds3 who was 3 at the time commented at the smell in our local shop. I said its just herbs and spices,it smells nice,like food.

When i went to the counter the Indian owner was angry and told me "your son is a fucking racist!" Incredulous i said "he's three years old he didnt mean it rudely" she then punched her hand in the other and aid i should beat him. We hurried outside.I was upset for days.

My dd has a big facial birthmark and young children point it out all the time,i dont see that as any different.As long as you correct it and continue to do so then i dont see the problem.

Btw.Do you not have a tv,cos even if she doesnt see other black people in rl there is plenty of oppotunity on there.

I actually don't believe the child was racist but she used an offensive term and the OP should've pulled her up the first time it was said. The woman did over-react but she may have faced a lot of racial abuse and was thus oversensitve and not in the mood for it that day.

I think this also evolves into further discussion about the correcting/disciplining of children in general.

I honestly believe that so many people are so wrapped up their own kids, their brilliance, advancedness, cuteness etc. The problem is that they never tell their kids 'no' and will defend them when they are clearly in the wrong e.g. kids threatening teachers that they're going to get their mum to come up to the school to have a go because they know no matter what they've done their parents always see them as right.

I know I'm going off on a tangent but I'm noticing more and more kids with massive senses of entitlement and no responsibility with their parents actually too scared to say no to them, point out when something is wrong or tell them off. I've got a friend whose 3.5 year old now has an iPhone3 (just has games on it now). Friend had to get a new one for himself as the kid screamed every time he took it away and he was too scared of the tantrums so gave it to him! I've had a kid practically throw my dinner plates from the table on to the floor whilst his parents nervously laughed looking at each other. My DH had to tell the kid off! It's okay to say no and it's okay to tell your kids off in public. My mum wouldn't think twice about correcting or disciplining me in the street and I wouldn't think twice about doing it to DD either. An older lady came up to me after a plane ride recently and commended DD on her behaviour, that gave me a lot of pride. Imagine if she'd been screaming and kicking the person in front of her and the person came up to me to say they were upset and I turned around and said 'but she's only a baby'. It's no defence. Your kid, your responsibility.

I think the OP comes across as the type that is scared of telling her kid off and is angry at the woman as it brought home the fact that she isn't disciplining her child. 3 years old is not too young to learn right from wrong.

cothermuckingfunt here

"Mums are constantly being advised to ignore bad behaviour and praise the positive, don't react to swear words, stay calm, etc, etc.

I know from my own 3 yr old that if I react with strong facial expressions and shocked, expressive wording, she will be more likely to do the same thing again because my reaction was so great. If I tell her calmly that something isn't nice or that she shouldn't do it again she hears the words I'm saying and doesn't do [insert 'thing'] again."

This was in response to the idea that the OP didn't react, presumably. You said that mothers are constantly being told not to react. It's right there in what you wrote.

If that isn't what you meant then maybe you should have written somethign else?

In a rush but ...

understand what you are saying as I was brought up in an area that was almost exclusively white. there was a sikh couple who run a little shop and we all regarded them as unbelievably exotic to be honest.

At the age of 5 I was on the tube with my mum and saw the first black person I'd ever met. Apparantly I said really loudly "mummy look at that man he's painted himself all funny and has black snakes coming out of his head". Mum was mortified

dd would never make those sort of comments because she's been brought up in a really multi cultural area.

YANBU but start explaining to him how people are different and making him understand these comments are rude

It depends I think samstown, if the mother of that child saw their child stamp on your foot and said nothing, wouldn't that be teaching them that it's ok to be rough, by the lack of a reaction?

Agree with Hully, Pag, porc and others - not the 3 year old''s fault. Mum should have said something. Even sorry after the woman stomped off, or whatever.

My kids have said inappropriate things - DS1 (3 at the time) in a newsagent that smelt of Asian spices, shouting 'it stinks in here'. I immediately told him off and apologised to the shop owner, who smiled. They have also told me that I am dark and that daddy is peachy/yellow (they are mixed race Black/White). My niece(6), who lives in a very White town, asked my why I was darker than the rest of my family. I explained, she was fine with the explanation.

Years ago, one little girl, probably about 2, pointed to the golliwog on the jam jar and then pointed at me when I happened to be by the marmalade section. I smiled, and I heard her mum say 'Oh god, one day she is really gonna get us into trouble' .

Anyway, something tells me that the OP may not be back, as there seems to be a number of threads re racism at the mo - MN's bi-annual racism-athon

To be honest ensuring children appreciate the multi cultural society we live in,making sure they have access to a variety of cultures/races in books/toys/tv etc and having family discussions during which you embrace how everybody is different and it's not polite to comment on differences I think is far more beneficial to berating a child barely out of nappies in public after a stressful incident.

In my experience you can scold 3 year olds on an issue like this all you like but it can tend to go in one ear and out the other iykwim.

That's why I don't see why the little girl should have been 'pulled up' at the time or 'told off' as she handn't meant to be naughty. Surely, better to talk and explain calmly about race and what comments are acceptable or not.

I said that I would react calmly and explain it to her instead of jumping up and down having hysterics because that would have a negative effect on the situation.

My comment about mums being told not to react to swear words, bad behaviour, etc was an observation on what mums are told to do in relation to unwanted behaviour. Of course saying someone has a chocolate face is unwanted and should be dealt with but I don't believe that clasping hands to heart and gasping is very productive. Crouching down next to the child and explaining why it isn't nice to say things like that seems much more appropriate.

And my response wasn't directly to the op. By the time I posted the thread had moved on to a more general discussion and I was giving my opinion.

Mrsheffley,

How do you deal with a three year old saying something inappropriate. Do you scold them? Really?
And do 3 year olds, in your experience, ignore what you say?

You seem quite determined that the choices are between ignoring or shrieking and scolding.

If this had happened to me I would have dropped down to my dd and said 'honey, you shouldn't say things about how people look. You can hurt peoples feelings' (actually I would have said 'we have talked about this -pointing and talking about people is rude'). And I would have said 'sorry about that' to the woman.

Is that really berating, scolding or anything else awful? Isn't this just how we communicate with our children in the natural course of things.

Alabaster skin.

Neon legs

White people on the beach are commonly referred to as "Lobsters".

As a white person none of these descriptions offend me.

This person was wrong to scream racist at the op and some people on this thread haven't got a clue what racism really is.