to be upset at racism accusation due to dd1's comment in town.

[PrincessScrumpy]

dd1 is 3 and said loudly "look mummy that lady has a chocolate face." The woman heard and said " nice to see you training her to be racist already!" I was really shocked. dd didn't mean offence it was an observation that her skin colour was the same as chocolate. She's only met a few people from other races due to us living in the West Country but I've always explained skin colour in the same way as hair and eye colour being different.

She did say it once before about Tiger Woods on TV but I decided to ignore it and not make an issue. dd now is asking what racist is and I don't think a 3yo needs to know - they don't see colour as a issue or feel superior etc. Left me shaken and actally quite cross. I really think the lady was being oversensitive.

When I was about 5 I was walking in town with my mum. There was a lady in front of me with one leg and crutches. I said "why is that lady hopping with sticks mummy?"

My mum carried on walking normally while calmly explaining to me that some people didn't have 2 legs and the 'sticks' were called crutches and they helped the lady to walk.

No further comment was needed.

Mums are constantly being advised to ignore bad behaviour and praise the positive, don't react to swear words, stay calm, etc, etc.

I know from my own 3 yr old that if I react with strong facial expressions and shocked, expressive wording, she will be more likely to do the same thing again because my reaction was so great. If I tell her calmly that something isn't nice or that she shouldn't do it again she hears the words I'm saying and doesn't do [insert 'thing'] again.

Paggy

At least we don't stand with Larry on Electric Avenue shaking black peoples' hands and calling them Chocolate Face, Paggy

chocolate

DS the other day 'you're white mummy, really really white, arent you? I mean the whitest person'. I am not that pale!

If DS had made a comment similar to the 'chocolate' one at that age, it would have been countered with a lecture on the fact that people come in all shapes, sizes and colours. I don't think the child was being racist, just passing a comment in a way that made sense to her - its not exactly an expression she would have picked up from anyone over the age of 3 is it?

Kids say all sorts of things, don't they? That man has a big nose, why is that lady so fat, why is that boy in a wheelchair, why doesn't that lady have any boobies? (That last was the daughter of a friend of mine.) You then point out to them that it's rude to comment on a person's appearance in front of them. That's the lesson they need to learn - to self-censor when in public.

The child's observation that the woman had a "chocolate" face" was nothing to do with the child being racist, and everything to do with a child expressing her curiosity about the world around her.

Also, surely a child would only say something like that if they had never seen a black person before. So if a child had watched any, say Cbeebies, milkshake etc they would see that people are different skin colours etc and would see that as totally normal, so I find it strange that a child would say that. Hope someone can see what I mean, twenty/thirty years ago social media was very White, it's multi cultural, it reflects us now , so i guess why I find this thread a bit strange.

@ Kritiq. Thanks and I think your analogy with the foot stomping is spot on. You can hurt someone unintentionally but if you do you don't blame the person who's been hurt.

At what point does being insular turn into being racist?

Is it insular or racist to think that "I am the norm/default and people different than me are either chocolate face or exotic or an ethnic or whatever"?

Is it insular or racists to have stereotypes "X is a good dancer because he is of African origin, X is good at math because he is Chinese etc"?

I would say both the above ways of thinking are racist even if not obviously derogatory, because it comes from an ethnocentric perspective that white anglosaxon is the norm. Other people are viewed from the lens of how they vary from that norm. I think that can be offensive.

Cothermuckingfunt if your child says or does something that negatively impacts someone else then it is up to you to react and apologise.

Your child runs its scooter into someone's leg, you say sorry
Your child accidentally whacks someone while swinging their arms, you say sorry
Your child says "look mummy that man is really fat" you say sorry
Your child says "look mummy that woman has a chocolate face" you say sorry

Standing by and not reacting when your child upsets or hurts other people is hopeless and despite your attempt to say this is proper parenting I hate to advise you that in fact it is extremely antisocial.

I remember when I was quite tiny (pre-nursery) being completely fascinated with the man behind us in a supermarket queue. He was very black and I had never seen a black person before (very rural, early 1970s). So I stared and stared before yelling out to my mum 'that man's only got 9 fingers - why has he only got 9 fingers, what happened to the other one?'. Colour never came into it, but I was very curious about his missing finger. Kids spend most of their lives on a mission to 'find out'.

When they are old enough then of course you get them to say sorry. You explain why. You say to the person that they didn't mean it. Whatever is appropriate for the situation.

You don't not react. Who would do that?

I totally disagree, boohoohoo, my children have watched all those programmes, and if anything, they love to discuss skin colour, different types of hair, why Cerri (?) only has one arm, why I'm a different skin tone to them, why we shouldn't say anything if someone is fat, is ginger the prettiest hair colour, why people have tattoos whatever. Trying to pretend we are all the same doesn't work, but it's a very simple rule that you don't comment on other people's appearances when you are out and about and three is not too young to start learning.

Well lots of people don't react, by the sound of things. And then wonder why people get upset with them.

I don't think that the little girl here was wrong, she said something innocently, but now she has then obviously the mum has to talk to her about it and explain the differences about race and what is acceptable etc. I also don't think making a big thing about it there and then to just show mortification and appease the offended lady would necessarily have helped, a proper conversation later would be better while appologising to the lady at the time.

I wasn't sure how to handle the issue of race myself when my kids were very little. They didn't seem to notice the differences or comment on them for a while so I probably just let it go thinking they hadn't really noticed yet and didn't want to bring a topic up and make an issue of something they weren't bothered about and perhaps too young to understand. Luckily they ended up going to school where they were in the minority being white, which I hoped would show them that 'white' isn't necessarily the norm and experience what it can be like to be minority. We are having all different kinds of 'interesting' conversations now that they are older, keeps you in your toes.

Blardy ell

It's a three year old

2cats2many

I have had a similar experience - I am white, tall and dark haired, quite Celtic-looking. When my daughter started at nursery in Peckham aged 6 months, one of the other children saw me and said, "he looks like X's dad!" X's dad was a blond, pink-faced Pole - but us white folk all look alike, you know ...

Of course that child wasn't being racist, any more than the OP's child was. But, the older they get, the more other people will assume that they are fully socialised, so it's in one's interests as a parent to try and make sure they actually ARE.

My daughter still describes black people as "brown people". Every time I correct her, whether we're in private or public, because I wouldn't want someone silly like the black woman in the OP assuming that she or I are racists. But it's true that not all children get these things the first (or hundredth) time ...

Obviously, X was the only other white child in the nursery, in case that wasn't clear.

Hardgoing - I also take this approach.

I dont think it was racist and I am suprised the woman reacted like that. I cannot imagine anyone in my family being upset by a 3 year old saying chocolate face.

I can imagine you get some sideways looks if she was 5 or 6 though.

If this happened in the West Country it could be that the woman was on the defensive, waiting for a comment. It can be intimidating being very much the minority.

I think she overeacted.

WOW we're talking about a 3 year old here and some of the language about a 3 year old's actions, in my view, is very strong. Jeez.

I think that many of the posters here have now instructed the mum on how she should have anticpated what her dc will say at that age in circumstances she may have not come across.

Doesn't mean this mum is hardwired to bring up a future racist and obviously after this thread she won't as she's now been well instructed about the use of the word chocolate.

My ds says to my dm at 3 years years old 'we are the same - you have a dark chocolate face and I have a dark chocolate face so we are the same and mummy is just white - BORING'
DM (laughing) 'nah I've got a mid coffee colour face as it happens'
DS (appalled) 'stupid nanny - you're not a cup of coffee. I'm right, you're wrong, I'm a dark chocolate face and you are dark chocolate face and mummy is just white' Ds for the record back then looked positively scandinavian and I'm taken for middle eastern.

Who, in this scenario, was supposed to be racist (and against?) in this and who was supposed to be offended by this.

My dm would react to this to any 3 year old (non family) kid who'd said this to her.

OP- yes, we need to instruct our kids on differences and respect of them and it's very hard to pre-empt differences you haven't yet encountered in your child's life.

I think 3 year olds do come out with comments like that.My dd wanted a doll with a "brown face and bobbly,puffy hair" at that age which I duly got for her after explaining that it was unacceptable to talk like that. Little kids just don't know what is right and wrong.It's our job to teach.

In the 70s there was a new black boy in my class(age 6) ,the first many of us had met. Some of the children called him "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory",I did at home thinking it was funny and my mother absolutely horrified frogmarched me to school the next day,complained and punished me severely. I'll never forget the confusion of simply saying something I'd heard not knowing it was so wrong and the huge impact it had. She was right how she handled it,we are not a racist family and I raise my kids exactly the same as I learnt from her.

My dd now 6 would never come out with the comment I did because she lives in a far more multi cultural world.Also the issue of describing the differences of skin colour,disability and neither being an issue (ie everybody is different) came up long ago(around 3 not 6) and we dealt with it just as I suspect most parents(op included)deal with it, when it crops up.

I think the lady in question was wrong to interrupt,if the child in question had been 12 then maybe but not a 3 year old.How does she know how the op is raising her kids?

But again, the issue is not that a child said a potentially offensive thing.

It is that the child said it and it seems the op just let it go.

Of course children say things. But we correct them and apologise.

i would have been mortfied if any of mine did this, as my mum was when aged 3 my sister split her head open, we were on an RAF base at the time, so it was all white pretty much, but the duty dr who came to tape her head back together was black, very dark black. my little sister had never seen a black person before and she FROZE, literally which was good as it meant he could tape her head back to together easily! but when he had finished my sister piped up 'mummy can i eat the chocolate man now?' my mum was MORTIFIED and immediately apologised and explained to my sister that he just had different coloured skin etc. the dr was fine and explained it was because his parents were from africa etc.

it really doesnt take long to correct a child and had you started to do that immediately the lady probably wouldnt have been so offended.

interestingly on the way to toddlers today we saw a black teenager with a very big afro, we have seen him before and ds4 who is 3, commented on his big hair. i told him its not nice to talk about other people, but explained that yes he had very curly hair and had obviously grown it long like his elder brother but as it was curly it looked 'bigger' than his brothers who has straight her.

today we saw the young man again and ds4 said 'its the black boy wiht the big hair mummy' and AGAIN i told him its not nice to point and talk about people whilst explaining that all people are different with different coloured, eyes,skin, hair etc. ihave not used the word racist to him, as there is no need he is only 3, just explained that all people are different and its not nice to talk about peoples appearances whether that is their size, skin colour, hair etc. but children do observe differences and talk about them, esp when little.

my eldest went through a phase of saying that all the old ladies saw 'looked like a witch' again i was mortified and said its not a nice thing to say!! and apologise to the person that was in earshot.

so no your dd wasnt being racist but you shjould have immediately apologised and explained that it was not a nice comment to make.

for the millionth time
its not about what the 3 year old said........we all know 3 year olds are on the whole, innocent

its about the Mums (complete lack of) reaction, and then rather than be mortified that her DD inadvertantly upset someone she comes and posts a this huffy OP

its about the fact that aeons of people cant try and understand that being called "choc face" when you are the only black in the village might have, just maybe, been a tad upsetting

boohoohoo - you would think that but this is not the first thread in which someone's DC referred to someone as chocolate.

I thought it was very unlikely too, but according to that thread, it is fairly common in white children who have been brought up in very white areas. DS was born and raised in London and we have quite a few people of different races in our day to day life so it's not something I've ever experienced.

Agree that how you deal with it is which is most important and KRITIQ's analogy is excellent (I think you should just C&P it on all 15 threads on this topic today :o)