Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not want to be addressed as Mrs, and not Ms?

265 replies

MitziKinsky · 15/11/2011 17:01

One of my DCs teachers always addresses me in writing as Ms. Kinsky.

I have the same surname as my DC, I wear a wedding ring, and often draghave DH with me, so I expect to be addressed as Mrs Kinsky, or even Mitzi (I am on first name terms with all the other staff at this school).

I find using Ms when you know someone is married a bit rude. I'm contemplating pointing out, nicely, that I'm a Mrs.

OP posts:
LRDtheFeministDragon · 15/11/2011 20:15

Sorry, I went out and the thread has got long, but I think this question was for me: 'Ok, so you are saying in order to be 'equal' I have to be Ms because that doesn't 'categorise' me? '

indignantmoo - no, I'm not saying you 'have' to do anything. But nor do I have to be supportive of anyone campaigning to use Mrs just because I'm a feminist, either. I'm not fussed if you do, but nor will I get irate on your behalf.

I just mentioned it because I find the suggestion that 'feminism is about choice' a bit odd - it's not, is it?

PigletJohn · 15/11/2011 20:16

Slinking, do you recall seeing a form where that was offered as an option? I don't

indignantmoo · 15/11/2011 20:42

No, LRD according to mumsnet feminists, it's about trying make people feel inferior, if their preferences do not fit in with your views of equality.

I am actually giving up at this point, because I have no more energy to expend this evening on people who are so blinkered on their own point of view, they belittle others.

I am equal partners with my husband, and we work together as a team. I realise not all relationships are like this and I am thankful for mine. It's not perfect, but we are learning every day.

I just want the right to call myself Mrs if I so choose, and other women to have the right to call themselves Ms or Miss.

Surely that is equality?

Signing off, bitterly disappointed and disillusioned with the MN version of Feminism. as usual

(Perhaps this thread should be moved there so you can all pat each other on the back and say how great you all are as usual)

BTW this was not just aimed at LRD, but all the over zealous MN Feminists.

Cathycomehome · 15/11/2011 20:43

I prefer Ms, and find it very irritating when my son's school persist in called me Mrs Comehome (presumably, they would call his father Mr Comehomeas my son has my last name, were they to meet him, which is my dad's name), but I get called all sorts of things by children - Mrs, Miss, Mummy, Grandma (ouch!), and today my favourite ever - Jonathan!!

catgirl1976 · 15/11/2011 20:49

I have a "uni-sex" name in real life, so in written correspondance I get "Mr" a lot :) That can be a bit annoying and I always think poor judgement from people applying to me for a job :)

Andrewofgg · 15/11/2011 20:57

catgirl1976 If your name is Lindsey or Evelyn then in fairness to all correspondents I think you should make it clear when writing which sort you are; otherwise they may as well as toss a coin. A he-Evelyn addressed as Ms might be equally pissed off. How do you think they should address the letter?

WhoKnowsWhereTheTimeGoes · 15/11/2011 20:57

Catgirl - how would you expect to be addressed by a job applicant if they did not know your gender or preferred title? I am in the pro-Ms camp, but in the situation of applying for a job to someone whose title and gender is unknown, I would worry that using Dear Firstname might cause offence too (many threads on here where people have complained vociferously about officialdom addressing them by their first name). I am quite happy myself to be addressed as firstname by just about anyone but many are not it seems. Guessing at Mr or Ms seems the safest bet but 50/50 chance of being wrong.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 15/11/2011 20:58

Confused I'm sorry if you think that. I didn't mean to make you feel inferior and don't quite see how I did. I just said I don't think that being a feminist means I have to get upset on your behalf if someone doesn't call you Mrs.

I don't see how that makes me 'over zealous' either.

WhoKnowsWhereTheTimeGoes · 15/11/2011 21:02

I also don't think that wishing that more women would choose the a title that doesn't define them by their marital status make me over zealous either.

catgirl1976 · 15/11/2011 21:03

I don't get seriously annoyed by it, I just give wry smile. I don't bin their applications or anything - I get they have made a guess and got it wrong and it's not a big deal. But the media / web ads for the jobs will all say please send your CV to "First Name Surname" so really they should follow that, but I think it feels to informal for some people and they worry they will sound too casual.

It doesn't really bother me, but it's a tiny bit more annoying than getting Ms instead of Mrs and a liiiiiiiiitle bit of me wonders if they guessed "Mr" because of my position or just got unlucky on a 50/50 chance. :) I can usually tell which it was in an interview though....

Andrewofgg · 15/11/2011 21:09

If a job advert asks me to write to Jane Smith or John Smith I would write Dear Ms Smith or Dear Mr Smith as the case might be. Not Dear Jane which is presumptuous or Dear John Smith which is just not natural usage. So if the Smith was Evelyn I would regard it as sensible for the advert to give me the Mr/Ms clue - or Miss or Mrs if she really wants, which is where we came in!

wildfig · 15/11/2011 21:14

I'm not married, and I don't have children, but now I'm over 35 I seem to be getting more and more correspondence addressed to Mrs Fig, particularly bills. As if a homeowner in her thirties must be married, or would be mortally insulted to be called Miss or Ms.

(I like Mistress. I wish that could come back.)

catgirl1976 · 15/11/2011 21:14

Hmmm - maybe I should change the ads. It doesn't really bother me though - just think it is interesting how many times I get "Dear Mr Cat Girl" and NEVER get any female variations (Miss, Ms or Mrs), just "Dear Cat Girl" or "Dear Mr Cat Girl".. (if that makes sense)

GlitterKitty · 15/11/2011 21:19

'I've never heard a man complain that he was called 'Master', or that a teacher didn't address him as a married man.'

I love this. That is all. Grin

WhoKnowsWhereTheTimeGoes · 15/11/2011 21:26

To be honest, in that job applicant's shoes I would probably plump for Mr as in the pursuit of the least likely to cause offence option I would think that a man may be more offended to be thought of as female than the other way round. Not because I think a man would be more likely to be in that job. In the same way that it is thought of as being worse to call a little boy a girl than the other way round. Which isn't right really.

Andrewofgg · 15/11/2011 21:31

catgirl If yours is a line of work where - however wrong it may be - there are more men in senior positions than women, putting Mr or Esq is the better bet.

If you are in primary school teaching, on the other hand, it's a bit silly!

In all honesty I think you should change the adverts. Job-hunting is stressful enough without an unnecessary extra worry.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 15/11/2011 21:38

IME, it's professions where there are more men in senior positions, where women are most likely to be pissed off by being called 'Mr'!

I don't mind at all when I get called 'Mr' by someone who's made a simple mistake. But if someone calls me 'Mr' because they think it's unlikely someone doing what I do will be a woman ... that's very rude!

HazleNutt · 15/11/2011 21:42

you are very unreasonable stating that it's rude to call someone Ms when they are married. So you are saying that Ms is an insult to married women? As it implies they might be single and single women are inferior to married ones?

I'm married and Ms, by the way.

ElaineReese · 15/11/2011 21:44

Yes, why is it rude to call someone Ms if they are married? It doesn't suggest they are unmarried, it doesn't suggest they are 'on the shelf', it doesn't suggest they are divorced. It doesn't suggest ANYTHING except that they are female.

That's kind of the point of it.

troisgarcons · 15/11/2011 21:53

Yes, why is it rude to call someone Ms if they are married? It doesn't suggest they are unmarried, it doesn't suggest they are 'on the shelf', it doesn't suggest they are divorced. It doesn't suggest ANYTHING except that they are female.

To a certain genre is suggests 'lesbian'.

Personally I dont like 'Ms' anymore than I like the term 'partner'

Exactly what does Ms mean? Mrs is Missus...so what is Mizzz? it stands for nothing other than a stroppy mare who thinks shes making a stand.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 15/11/2011 21:55

I really don't think that's what the OP meant.

I think she just didn't know 'ms' was used for married women who'd changed their names.

I don't know why the ideas that 'ms' can't be used by married women, or is only for divorced women, are so common - but they are.

To make a comparison, my SIL is German and initially didn't know British people don't stack up titles (so you choose Ms or Dr, Dr or Job Title, you don't call yourself Frau Doktor Architect, or however you spell it). Conventions for using titles aren't always easy to figure out.

What matters most is making sure people know there are options out there if they want them.

MRSMONEYPENNY73 · 15/11/2011 21:55

I find it irritating when someone I know calls me Ms when they know I'm a Mrs. Strangers aren't going to know and it's not everyone who bothers to look at the ring finger of a woman before they address them ( I don't) I'd just put her right if I were you cos I think I would.

I like Mrs as much as I liked being a Miss before I got married.

'Ms' in my opinion is crap, who the hell thought it up? Someone who married but didn't want to appear to be cos it'll looked like they are owned by a man or something.

PigletJohn · 15/11/2011 21:58

Surely it is rude to call someone one thing if they have expressed a preference for something else?

And if you want to be addressed as something, it is silly not to let people know what that is?

motherinferior · 15/11/2011 21:59

No, someone who didn't see it was anyone's business whether she'd married a man or not. Just as men don't get pegged by whether they've managed to get a woman to marry them or not.

Original poster
MitziKinsky · 15/11/2011 21:59

You are right, Ms doesn't suggest anything.

Mrs states clearly that I am married. I consider my marriage a public declaration of my partnership with DH. Being married is not better or worse than not being married, but blanking my marital status, when it could be acknowledged annoying.

Rather than say "I am a wife" as has been suggested, I would prefer to say "I have a husband"

OP posts: