to feel cheated and lied to?

[mhmhhhhho]

"They" told me that if I grew up, worked hard, became a loyal employee, did the right things, stayed the right side of the law, treated people well... I'd reap the rewards of it all in life.

So I went to uni, did my years there, got into the minimum amount of debt I could manage whilst working part-time in crappy night-time NMW jobs, got myself a job in a sector which means I'm just paying only a tiny bit of the student debt off each month (because I don't earn enough).

DH and I have no hope of getting the deposit together for our own flat (don't even think of a house). We rent, and despite both of us working fulltime (him on NMW) there's barely enough to make ends meet at the end of every month after bills, tax, commuting costs.

Don't even think about having DCs - I joined thinking it might be a nice idea in the future, but childcare would wipe out my salary, leaving us to rely on DH's NMW and tax credits (which are being targetted for reduction by the government).

Am I the only person in their early thirties that feels utterly fucked off with their current situation, that they've done all the "right" things in life, but basically can't ever see the light at the end of the tunnel where things become comfortable? That's all I'm really asking for really - not rich, just comfortable, where we could think about being able to afford our own home, maybe 1 or 2 DCs, and perhaps have an occasional treat.

Am I the only one of my generation that feels cheated by society, that says if you are a good person and do the right things, you'll get rewarded for it? nonsense! life seems to get harder!

Theoretical question really - I'm not about to jack in my job or anything - but I was mulling over the idea my mother told me when I was younger, about how if you work hard, you'll be comfortable (in a way we never were - parent illness meaning couldn't work - not a benefit bashing thread).

:(

I think there are many, many people feeling as you do.

its not JUST about working hard though. Its about making the smartest choices. I'm in my early 30s. I'm the same as you right up to the middle of your 2nd paragraph.

Then I made a decision to quit my job and work for myself. Scary, yes, nuts, some said. But now I see the light at the end of the tunnel, things have become comfortable. We're not rich, just comfortable, we own our own home, and might be able to consider maybe 1 or 2 DCs in a year or two. We have an occasional treat.

I'm not saying everyone CAN or SHOULD set up their own business. Just that your own decisions create the life you lead. Society is just a framework. It doesn't cheat you. We're lucky that our society allows us choices. Sure times are tough, but I think unless you are severely disadvantaged by reasons outside of your immediate control, you can't go around blaming society for your lifestyle.

Why would it be YOUR salary that it is wiped out, if you earn more. Surely it would make sense for your DH to stop work in that scenario? Have you thought about doing further study, looking for a better job, moving to a different area?

I think the basics these days are more expensive though - particularly housing.

Yanbu. But owning your own home isnt the be all and end all.

It is also about luck am matching that luck and opportunity with skills.

But owning your own home isnt the be all and end all.

True that, hairylights. We own it but we choose not to live in it - another smart decision right there.

What your mum missed in her spiel, was to tell you to pick a university degree/career that earns you enough to have the things you'd like. And the things you'd like aren't pie in the sky, they are certainly achievable.

What is it that you studied? and how does it relate to your current occupation? Can you retrain/move jobs/specialise?

I feel for you.

"I think the basics these days are more expensive though - particularly housing."

Yes, I agree. I simply cannot understand why it is considered a "good thing" when house prices are on the rise. The only people who benefit are those who are downsizing, solicitors, estate agents and the government (stamp duty). A colleague at work gave up trying to sell her house because there are very few first time buyers around.

YABU. Did 'they' tell you to do that particular course at uni? Force you to take that particular low-paid job? Get together with a partner on minimum wage? No. All of the things you were advised to do are totally sound. Being a good person is a fine thing to be. But it's up to you to take advantage of the opportunities presented and be a little more ambitious if you want things like money and property. Hard work only goes so far. You can work as hard as you like sweeping the streets & you'll never get rich. Being a 'good person and doing the right things' might get you sainthood or a place in heaven but it's bugger-all use in the big bad commercial real world.

Yanbu op. I am pregnant with our second child, we had the first one just out of our teens, back then we both worked full time in apprentice jobs, rented a flat privately and family helped out with childcare.

I went to uni at night whilst working full time in the day and having a toddler to care for. I got my degree. DH passed his qualifications as well.

Seven years on, we still have no hope of a home of our own. We are renting an expensive two bedroom house privately, no availability on housing association or council for us as we both work.

We are actually going to be worse off when baby number two is born, despite having qualified and worked hard to increase our earning potential, my DH still earns the same money as he did 5 years ago, there are no jobs available in his field so his employers have taken advantage. If you factor in the cost of living he has actually had a pay cut year on year :(

If there was any kind of scheme for working families to get on the housing ladder with the help of the government, or if the jobs Market improved to provide better prospects, we might feel as if we were getting somewhere and there was something for us at the end of it. But it's just a daily grind, and things get more and more expensive. You are not alone in fee,ing the way you do. X

I am with you all the way. Dh and I both work. I have done the uni thing, did a part time masters too. Got a small flat when you could get 100% mortgage. Dh got a an apprenticeship followed by a regular job against all the odds. Now we have, selfishly, had one dc and would love another but can't as we can't get a bigger place and everyone around us who stuck with council accommodation (which we would have been entitled to back in the day but struggled to go it alone) are popping out kids all over the place. I don't begrudge them this at all, just wish I could do it too. Time to NC I think......

There is no 'housing ladder'

It doesn't exist anymore.

Right vivi, apart from for all the people already on it.

Me and my dh earn quite a good wage between us but we can't afford to buy a house either, unless I go back to doing locum work - where I could earn over twice my current salary.

Im weighing it between having a secure job or not.

We simply cannot afford to save much for a deposit at this time, although looking to move to a smaller house as my oldest has now left for Uni but we are currently paying £1400 per month rent.

Its not great for many people these days

Quite true Vivi. I used to own a house before we moved abroad. Now we rent, and I find it hard to imagine where we will gather the wherewithal to buy another one. I have been working for nearly 25 years pt/ft and DH and I earn a decent salary.

If by "all the people already on it" you mean all the people who already own their own home, then yes, I am right.

People think that you buy a house, it increases in value, you sell it and buy a bigger one with the profit, ad infinitum. That is the traditional perception of a housing ladder. That's how it used to be.

The majority of people I know (myself included) who own their own home certainly don't think of themselves as being on a ladder, that BECAUSE they own this 2-bed house here, that at some point in the future they will be able to own that 3-bed house there. It doesn't work like that anymore. You know that.

It's so frustrating, we don't even want a house so we can keep selling it and gradually moving to a bigger house/better area bla bla bla, we just want to be able to paint a nursery or put in a sandpit for our kids or whatever without having to ask, or be in content fear of the damn house being sold and having to uproot and move from the only home our dd can remember. Our parents take this for granted, all they do is moan that their homes are not worth as much nowadays!

We are good tenants, have never missed one months rent, never been out of work in twelve years... We just can't afford to save for a deposit on a home.

Vivi you don't even know where I'm coming from, I don't give a fuck about "trading up"!

But that's a different issue, Changing.

The issue is with the attitude towards renting and rental in this country. I'm not landlord-bashing - I am a landlord! I'm also a tenant, and I appreciate I'm in the privileged position of having an extremely fair and reasonable landlord, most people can't say that.

Why in the hell shouldn't you paint your nursery/feel secure in your tenure? You SHOULD have those rights. Its an outrage how tenants get treated.

Home ownership should be an option. It shouldn't be the holy grail though. I understand why it is though, and fundamentally, I want to own my own dream home. But I realised a while ago I'm not going to achieve that while hitching a ride on some non-existant housing ladder.

X post.

My earlier comments were WRT the term 'housing ladder' not where you may or may not be coming from.

In Belgium we have that security - a 9 year lease. They can only give notice if they want the house to live in themselves. Tenancies have to be registered with a central agency and rents can only increase by indexation. Responsibilities of both parties are clearly defined. And you can decorate.

Well I don't want a dream home. I want a home for my kids. That is all. That is my holy grail, sorry. me and my husband know full well that when the landlady of this place gets what she thinks it's worth ( currently being valued at 15k less than she wants) she will put it on the Market, safe in the knowledge that we have looked after it for five years. She is always going on about how lovely we keep it.

I don't want to be keeping someone else's investment warm with my wages for all my life.

YANBU. And if you chose the wrong degree when 17, then it's very hard to get any funding or help to retrain.

Well maybe housing ladder was the wrong choice of words. Sorry!