to feel cheated and lied to?

[mhmhhhhho]

"They" told me that if I grew up, worked hard, became a loyal employee, did the right things, stayed the right side of the law, treated people well... I'd reap the rewards of it all in life.

So I went to uni, did my years there, got into the minimum amount of debt I could manage whilst working part-time in crappy night-time NMW jobs, got myself a job in a sector which means I'm just paying only a tiny bit of the student debt off each month (because I don't earn enough).

DH and I have no hope of getting the deposit together for our own flat (don't even think of a house). We rent, and despite both of us working fulltime (him on NMW) there's barely enough to make ends meet at the end of every month after bills, tax, commuting costs.

Don't even think about having DCs - I joined thinking it might be a nice idea in the future, but childcare would wipe out my salary, leaving us to rely on DH's NMW and tax credits (which are being targetted for reduction by the government).

Am I the only person in their early thirties that feels utterly fucked off with their current situation, that they've done all the "right" things in life, but basically can't ever see the light at the end of the tunnel where things become comfortable? That's all I'm really asking for really - not rich, just comfortable, where we could think about being able to afford our own home, maybe 1 or 2 DCs, and perhaps have an occasional treat.

Am I the only one of my generation that feels cheated by society, that says if you are a good person and do the right things, you'll get rewarded for it? nonsense! life seems to get harder!

Theoretical question really - I'm not about to jack in my job or anything - but I was mulling over the idea my mother told me when I was younger, about how if you work hard, you'll be comfortable (in a way we never were - parent illness meaning couldn't work - not a benefit bashing thread).

Changing I think what gets my goat right up the fundament is that people then say "Yes dear, you simply cannot have EVERYTHING in life my love, why, I would love to have a fifth bedroom but one must simply cut one's coat accordnig to one's cloth" etc. etc. don't UNDERSTAND what my dream is.

It's not to be wealthy.

It's not to have 5 bedrooms and room for a pony.

It's not to have a fucking massive SMEG fridge or whatever.

It's to be able to paint the walls/grow tommies in the summer/rest easy knowing no-one can sling me out on the street on a whim.

That's really not being greedy. Is it?

All the people I know who are comfortable, people who have big houses etc have worked extremely hard and sacrificed a lot, more than I ever would.

Against my better judgement, I'm going to tackle this one.

Changing WHY don't you want to be a tenant anymore? Because they get treated badly? Because they have less freedom to create a home in the house they're living in? Because they don't have security of tenure? These are all things that could be changed if people actually made their voices heard.

I like being a tenant. We're treated well. We have freedom to create a home in the house we're living in. We have security of tenure. We're not paying massive interest fees to the bank while worrying about the value of our home. But I know I'm very lucky in this respect and in the minority and it shouldn't be that way. All tenants should have these rights. It should be as Portofino describes the situation in Belgium.

If you had these rights as a tenant, why on earth would you want a crippling mortgage on a pile of bricks? Its not as though you've even brought up the angle that its an investment for your old age. Which is fair enough because these days, it really isn't.

Oh and what bugs me about our generation is this sense of entitlement people seem to have developed, is it as a result of being spoonfed the splurge you mention in your OP?

And why is no one up for relocating to work any more?

In Belgium we have that security - a 9 year lease. They can only give notice if they want the house to live in themselves. Tenancies have to be registered with a central agency and rents can only increase by indexation. Responsibilities of both parties are clearly defined. And you can decorate

Getting the UK housing rental market to be more European is IMO critical to sorting out Britains housing problems (remembers a rented house being sold from under us, unreasonable landlords etc etc).

Scarlet. I know where you are coming from, and hand on heart, I feel the same. It's not a case of lack of positive mental attitude, giving up too easily, moaning on... I can't believe that is how we are being portrayed to be honest! If I was sat there lazing around waiting for a handout or bemoaning my lack of chances in life, that would be different. But I have been to uni, my parents showed me the benefits of working hard, it certainly paid off for them. Somewhere along the line though, things seem to have changed.

Changing you know all that about me? Wow.

I have a house.
I have a husband
I have children.

The house is a an excouncil in the arse end of the most unfashionable part of london but that fine.
My husband has multiple sclerosis.
One of my five children is dead, one is disabled, on had a major melt down and lives in a hostel. The other two are fine (please God).
We earn 15k a year between us.

No smuggery here. No 'you cant have everything'. Just a sincere wish that this young woman can see through the crap she is living with and recognise that her life is not all bad.

Why would we want to relocate? We have jobs. We were born in this town. We like this town. Is not the location stopping us owning a home.

I don't want to be a tenant because we don't have the same rights in this country. And also because I'd love to own my own home. Is that so terribly wrong?

Well something needs to give in order for you to achieve your dreams. You may very well be happy in another town - other people manage. Relocating somewhere cheaper may enable you to get the things you want so that you will then be able to move to the location of your dreams. You can't have it all land on your lap because you have lived in that town your whole life, it doesn't mean you're entitled to it!

Great post, Custard

I just want a job that pays enough to keep a roof over our heads (renting would do), edible food on our table and not to freeze in winter. I don't think that's greedy.

Sorry, I think you are referring to the op mrs custard. I haven't mentioned our area at all. I don't think I'm entitled to anything.

God lots of custards around here tonight - I meant great post CustardCake but yours was also fine, Nearly!

Too much custard in the mix!

changing i am a LP of 2 living in a rented house surviving totally on benefits... but i'm working on getting myself out of it. i dont accept that this is my lot and i am willing to work hard and sacrifice things to get where i want to be.

Good for you heresthething. Have I said that my lot is my lot and I'm not prepared to work myself out of it? No.

I have just changed jobs to a much larger company with better prospects which is a massive change for our family. I am working hard to improve our prospects too.

I have seenmassively more whining posts and senses of entitlement on mums net than mine! But I seem to be coming across all wrong. apparently I am waiting for it all to drop into my lap while I sit and moan!

Changing you are, perhaps, taking posts too personally when they're said in a general sense?

It's hard for me to understand how a childless graduate couple, both working, would be unable to save and be 'comfortable'. Though I hear this so much that I can only assume it must be true. Not my experience though.

I've never heard the suggestion that if you're a good person you'll be rewarded financially. Are you sure you haven't misunderstood that? When people say that doing good works can be 'rewarding', they don't necessarily mean in terms of money!

I think you need to have clear in your mind what you want out of life, whether that's work-life balance, or a 'rewarding' (in the non-financial sense!) job where you make a difference to society, or just a high salary - and plan and make choices and seek out opportunities that will help you get there. Not that everything always works out exactly as you want, of course, but it's a better strategy than just being a 'good person' and 'working hard' (at something, anything?) and hoping that the universe will somehow magically reward you with financial gain.

I didn't get that impression from you whatsoever Changing. My only angle was that you appear to have homeownership on a pedestal. Understandably so when you're treated like crap as a tenant. But its this general attitude to homeownership that is perpetuating the problem in this country in my opinion.

changing i was responding to your post suggesting that all the 'preachers' on thsi thread were people who owned tehir own homes etc. i was just telling you that isn't the case for me.

Me neither. You are totally mobile but are choosing not to move.

The baby boomers are holding all the property and doing their kids out of homes (albeit probably unwittingly) and then they complain that they're having to use their savings to help fund their kids house deposits add this to a sense of entitlement from a generation of people who all went to uni as they were told to do and then add into the mix a lack of jobs they feel they're worthy of being employed in....

That actually bugs me a lot. Graduates who think they're above entry level jobs and want to walk into a profession with no experience. Graduates annoy me.

YANBU.

We did buy a house, and had a child in it, we thought we would move to a bigger house when DC was one.

Four years on from that, we have a house we cannot sell, due to negative equity, and we cannot save a deposit either as mortgage, bills and childcare eat almost everything we earn. We are expecting DC2 (planned - couldn't really wait much longer due to my medical issues) in a small two bedroomed house - eek!

I have no idea when we will be able to move, I am hoping this baby is a boy to make room sharing easier!

It upsets me because we did everything 'right' - put ourselves through uni, work hard, got on the property 'ladder' as soon as we could, waited til we could (just) afford it to have a child...and now we are truly, truly stuck.

Mrs custard, heresthething addressed me in her post, did she not? I dunno why, I'm neither a single parent, nor on benefits, her post had no relation to any of my situation really.

I think your post about the baby boomers generation unthread really says what I was trying to get across.

My parents bought their house in 1980, my dad was a milkman, my mum didn't work. They managed just fine. The house they own now (mum has died but dad still lives there) is on the Market currently for 450k. They have not worked at the top of any profession, nor been to uni. They just got lucky. They brought me up to work hard and get the family life I had as a child for my own kids. I am trying daily to get there, but accept things will never be the way they were again. I will be happy if we have a very basic home and stay out of unsecured debt to be honest.