to feel cheated and lied to?

[mhmhhhhho]

"They" told me that if I grew up, worked hard, became a loyal employee, did the right things, stayed the right side of the law, treated people well... I'd reap the rewards of it all in life.

So I went to uni, did my years there, got into the minimum amount of debt I could manage whilst working part-time in crappy night-time NMW jobs, got myself a job in a sector which means I'm just paying only a tiny bit of the student debt off each month (because I don't earn enough).

DH and I have no hope of getting the deposit together for our own flat (don't even think of a house). We rent, and despite both of us working fulltime (him on NMW) there's barely enough to make ends meet at the end of every month after bills, tax, commuting costs.

Don't even think about having DCs - I joined thinking it might be a nice idea in the future, but childcare would wipe out my salary, leaving us to rely on DH's NMW and tax credits (which are being targetted for reduction by the government).

Am I the only person in their early thirties that feels utterly fucked off with their current situation, that they've done all the "right" things in life, but basically can't ever see the light at the end of the tunnel where things become comfortable? That's all I'm really asking for really - not rich, just comfortable, where we could think about being able to afford our own home, maybe 1 or 2 DCs, and perhaps have an occasional treat.

Am I the only one of my generation that feels cheated by society, that says if you are a good person and do the right things, you'll get rewarded for it? nonsense! life seems to get harder!

Theoretical question really - I'm not about to jack in my job or anything - but I was mulling over the idea my mother told me when I was younger, about how if you work hard, you'll be comfortable (in a way we never were - parent illness meaning couldn't work - not a benefit bashing thread).

I know how you feel, I really regret doing a degree.

I'm early 30s. I made different decisions to you. I wanted a house, I bought 10yrs ago when 100% mortgages existed, and I bought in a rather crappy area so it was affordable. My house cost £50k. My mortgage was £260 and I rented a spare room out for £300. I lived there for 2yrs then my tenant bought my house from me, giving me £30k profit to put down on my next house.

The OP doesn't just want to buy a house, they want to be 'comfortable'... which means they expected their efforts to get them MONEY. And if you want money you don't necessarily get it as some kind of reward for being 'a good person' or even a 'hard-working person'. That's ridiculous. You have to be a shrewd person as well. ie. not go for the worthy course followed by the noble job that pays zip, but make different choices, take a few risks and maybe end up in a slightly less worthy job but one that means you can stockpile some cash. Be a little more mercenary about the career path. The much-loathed 'city boys' often have a game-plan of spending several years trading bonds, banking the bonuses and then getting out and getting a life. That's a plan to get houses and money .... not some woolly idea of being 'good' and hoping things just drop in your lap

Changing, are there no housing association long term lets or joint ownership schemes near you? they would be the people to approach if you wanted long term security, and they make it so much easier for people to get started out. In our area they are always building new little estates.

Absolutely. You do have to be shrewd, have a game plan. Plus some people fall on very good luck.

Mate, I'm right there with you, and so are many of my friends.

the notion that I might one day own (own? OWN?!?!?! Pardon me while I bust a rib laughing hysterically ) my own home with, oh I dunno, 3 bedrooms (three? THREE??!?!?! Aaaah - ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!) and maybe even a tiny bit of garden out the back is risible.

I might as well be asking for a mansion in paradise with two swimming pools and a wrapping room.

(I am as educated as you can get, have always worked, am currently working in legal admin, my DH has a degree, has always worked, is currently a copper).

I am pretty fucking bitter about it let me tell you.

So, yeah. YANBU

I knew you were going to pick up on me saying 'dream home' changing. you're making a lot of assumptions - how do you know that my dream home isn't simply 'a home for my kids' too?

If you feel that strongly about it, why not campaign to change tenants rights? Find alternative solutions, all you seem focussed on is that if you owned your home things would be better. Great - so its owned by the bank rather than your LL. Home ownership isn't the bed of roses its made out to be in our culture.

And its hardly a great 'investment' you're keeping warm for her if its worth 15K less than she hoped. Imagine you'd bought it 5 years ago instead of signing the tenancy agreement. By the sounds of it, its not held its value. You're better off having lived there as a tenant without paying massive interest charges on a mortgage to the bank and losing value on the property.

I'm honestly not trying to be argumentative, just urging you to try and think about things from a different angle.

Cogito. I suppose you are posting this from Dubai, while keeping an eye on your hedge fund from afar?

Stop preaching, for gods sake, what does it matter how the op's job matches up to your category of worthiness? The fact is she is fully trained in her sector and to retrain will cost more money she doesn't have. People at the lower end of the earning sector DO feel shoehorned into a career they can't easily get out of, it doesn't make them less shrewd or deserving of patronising attitudes.

btw way OP - I started a thread like this a couple of years ago (I am a serial name-changer ) and was told that

a) I should abandon my home city and go and live somewhere hundreds of miles away where I know no-one but the property's cheaper

b) If I have always worked but haven't managed to save a deposit then I must be wiping my arse on fifties

and

c) if I had any gumption whatsoever I would eat one baked bean a day for the next 10 years until I had the requisite £40k deposit in the bank

Whilst points a) and c) have a grain of truth, I think you can probably guess that I didn't altogether find those to be helpful suggestions!

YANBU and it's time people stopped blaming the people at the bottom for the way things are. The world is run by people who don't give a toss about anybody but themselves. Sad fact.

vivi that's a v. useful post :)

from our rather desperate perspective owning can seem like the only dream of security and hope. But I do accept that it's not always a bed of Cadbury's Roses.

I'm in my late thirties and was "fed" the same messages but with a little leavening - that people don't always get what they deserve in life and that luck plays a huge part in what happens to you.

I went to a good university and left with only a small amount of debt (£100 overdraft) I got a job and met the man who later become my husband...and that was my good fortune right away. He is ambitious, talented and hard-working and has rapidly advanced on his career path. We own a modest house in a nice area, I'm a SAHM to three children (we're considering a fourth) and my husband earns a really good wage.

So, like you, I worked hard and studied and was "good" but the only reason I am where I am today is down to having met and married the right man. Sheer luck, in other words.

It's been valued realistically, they actually modernised it and had it valued at the very top of the Market in 2000 before splitting up and leaving it empty for ages, then getting into mortgage arrears. If you really want to know. they seem to be hanging onto the notion that a 2 bed terrace in a bog standard street is worth 160k. Our town is in the midlands, not exactly a property hot spot. But that's all by the by. And as long as she hangs on for the Market to improve (er, not likely, at least not to what it was when she lived here) we are relatively safe. My dd can go to the school at the bottom of the road and we might even get to bring our baby home here next year. Horrible to look at life on such a short spectrum though. For me anyway.

I don't give a toss about tenants in general, I just don't want to be one anymore. You are the one making assumptions.

So, jscot, as my DH doesn't have a fantastic job, I didn't marry the right man! Nice.

"what does it matter how the op's job matches up to your category of worthiness? "

If I'm preaching it's in response to the whining. I have no idea what the OP does for a living but it clearly doesn't pay what she needs for the 'comfortable lifestyle' that she badly craves. I'm guessing with all the emphasis they place on being a good person that this job is in the worthy but badly paid bracket... there's plenty of them.

I don't have a problem with people that have the accumulation of wealth low down on their priorities. But to say they expected to be well-off just for being good?

Thanks, Scarlett - I'm really trying not to sound like an arse, but I really think a lot of this is down to how you think about it.

DP and I have quite a different approach to our friends (and seemingly a few people round here) when it comes to things like employment, housing, investment and try to come at problems/challenges from a different angle. And I think as result seem to be doing comparatively alright. And I acknowledge I'm lucky like jscott in finding my DP whose SN might actually be the driving force behind our unconventional way of thinking.

Although its certainly no utopia (as those who've seen the other thread I've been quite active on tonight would attest)

Basically, you can't have everything. Our priority was having children and to do that we wanted to own a three bed house so we moved to a place where DH could get a decent job and bought a house in an area where prices were low. DH is on what many would consider a pretty modest wage (though it is well above minimum wage) but we can easily afford for me to be a SAHM. The house needs a lot of refurbishment but we plan to tackle that slowly over the coming years. Our mortgage is very low, much less than the rent we were paying. We live far from our parents in a new town but we have our main priorities which is a gorgeous little son and our own home so we're happy. If you're not happy with how things are OP then there's the potential to change it but you have to be willing to prioritise and compromise. That's what life is all about unfortunately.

I know this is going to sound preachy but it really makes me feel sick to see people complaining about not having enough when they have a home, a job and food on the table. Ok you don't have everything you want but you have everything you need. You can sit there and lament all the things you don't have or you can actually enjoy your life.

If you are unable to enjoy your life then money isn't the problem, something else is.

Are you in London or another "expensive" City?

Decent houses are much cheaper in more remote areas (as you probably know). Is relocating a possibility job-wise? It meant we could move from 2 bed terrace to a 4 bed detached for the same money.

Cogito, the point is that way, I think you missed it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

i agree with vivi.

and can i just say OP, you are in the best position you will ever be in WRT making as much money as you can. you have the flexibility of having no children and no house to sell so that should you want to, you can take on extra work, maybe start up a small business, move further away to increase your chances of earning more. both you and your DH can do that. i understand you are both working now, but is there anything to stop either of you taking on extra work? have you looked to see if there is anything available in your area? you may think, "i dont want to see any less of DH than i already do" and that is fine, for many people it is the right decision to jsut have the one job each. but it IS a choice you have made. anything that is worth having will involve sacrifice and compromise. you have to weigh up the 'cost' to your current lifestyle of earning more money. face it, the lifestyle you want isnt going to fall in your lap. and it is ok to be pissed about that, but it doesn't mean you can't try and do something about it. 3/4 years of working an extra job may make all the difference to you and DH being able to buy a home of your own.

Welcome to life.

It's fairly shit, all things considered.

I feel for you. I think it is hard for everyone at the moment.

But you were lucky to go to uni and you are lucky you have a job and your health.

Concentrate on these positives instead of the negatives.

I have a house and I am glad for it. I am very lucky. But there are so many other things that are not so great in my life and I can do fuck all about them.

You are still young, you have lots and lots of potential and a whole life ahead of you.

Things can get better. Dont waste what you have by thinking your life is crap. It isnt.

I hope things get better for you soon.

I notice the only people telling op she shouldn't feel this way are also the people who have their own home/started a family/married someone who earns a decent wage?

I know that I'm lucky to have a job, a roof and healthy babies but it is human nature to want more, and in this country, what many others have already got.

Hecate

YABU and YANBU. You make your own fortune in life and every event in your life has been the result of a choice you made (give or take a few bits like health etc). If you want things to change then change them.

Our generation (25-35 bracket here) has been royally screwed over by the baby boomers (our parents) in terms of jobs, housing, healthcare, pensions the works. The baby boomers were the first generation to be able to have it all and to have it cheaply, at the cost of our generation being forced into lower paid jobs with higher skills sets with no chance of buying property and with the joyful prospect of being made to work until we're nearly 70 in order to prop up ailing pension schemes and a broken healthcare system. Fun eh!

But either way. If you want something in life you have to make it possible. It's not going to land in your lap. As for wanting children. Well. You're not living in a film. If life isn't perfect but you can cope or will be able to cope then have kids because once the time has passed and you are no longer biologically able to what then?

I'm not happy with my lot right now so i'm working to change it. Oh and I was also fed the "you can have it all" line. You can. You just have to work for it.