to feel cheated and lied to?

[mhmhhhhho]

"They" told me that if I grew up, worked hard, became a loyal employee, did the right things, stayed the right side of the law, treated people well... I'd reap the rewards of it all in life.

So I went to uni, did my years there, got into the minimum amount of debt I could manage whilst working part-time in crappy night-time NMW jobs, got myself a job in a sector which means I'm just paying only a tiny bit of the student debt off each month (because I don't earn enough).

DH and I have no hope of getting the deposit together for our own flat (don't even think of a house). We rent, and despite both of us working fulltime (him on NMW) there's barely enough to make ends meet at the end of every month after bills, tax, commuting costs.

Don't even think about having DCs - I joined thinking it might be a nice idea in the future, but childcare would wipe out my salary, leaving us to rely on DH's NMW and tax credits (which are being targetted for reduction by the government).

Am I the only person in their early thirties that feels utterly fucked off with their current situation, that they've done all the "right" things in life, but basically can't ever see the light at the end of the tunnel where things become comfortable? That's all I'm really asking for really - not rich, just comfortable, where we could think about being able to afford our own home, maybe 1 or 2 DCs, and perhaps have an occasional treat.

Am I the only one of my generation that feels cheated by society, that says if you are a good person and do the right things, you'll get rewarded for it? nonsense! life seems to get harder!

Theoretical question really - I'm not about to jack in my job or anything - but I was mulling over the idea my mother told me when I was younger, about how if you work hard, you'll be comfortable (in a way we never were - parent illness meaning couldn't work - not a benefit bashing thread).

I do feel for the younger generation.
Frankly they have been sold a pup.

The UK is in a period of huge flux with the middle incomes completely disappearing. We are already nearing, and will soon reach the place of rich or poor. No middle ground.

Which is why all the fluffy, middle class MN hand wringing about just wanting our DC to be happy is pure BS. Young people need to know how it is out there and what the future will look like. And they need to make shrewd choices accordingly.

I had a good education, did well at school etc then (according to my parents.) I rebelled at 18 (I didn't go to uni ) instead I chose to see my boyfriend and get a job...
Fast forward a decade and I have been employed by the same company 9yrs, married that boyfriend, own a decent sized home, had a DC, can afford 'comfortables' like nice cars & holidays.

My sister who did go to uni (few yes older than I am) is in a completely different boat, her and her partner both work full time, bring home decent wages, yet can't afford to buy a house/get married/have DC, they do rent a small house at the mo. And are pretty much in the same position as OP

I guess what I'm trying to say is that because I made those choices earlier on it's got me to were I am now, had I not I would be in the same e as my sis & OP right now.. I don't think it's down to how hard you work, or how lucky you are it's more about the choices you make and the paths you chose IYKWIM!

Not necessarily though. For some no degree would mean a lifetime of crappy jobs. Going to Uni isn't necessarily a bad choice as it gives you all sorts of things. Luck does play a huge role, and I say that as someone who is very 'lucky'.

The thing I find difficult to handle is thinking about the future and how our children will be able to house themselves/get jobs/have families.

We were some of the lucky ones - bought a flat in London, sold that and got a house in London, sold that and moved out of town - buying a complete wreck every time and doing the work ourselves, so we did our bit on the property ladder.

However I can see no way that our children will be able to do the same - and in the current economic climate I can see that this house, the one we thought was our pension, will have to go much sooner than we thought, leaving US very little to show for all our hard work and equally nothing to boost our children.

Probably made some poor life decisions along the way (my mother always said it was as easy to love a rich man as a poor one!) but at the time they seemed like the right decisions for us and our family, involved a lot of hard work etc but it all seems to be crumbling in the face of the recession.

So OP, I sympathise.

I think you are just as likely to end up in crap company that goes bust if you have a degree. Perhaps not in the past but certainly these days.

I made what I thought were sensible decisions. I chose a degree with a specific career in mind and started out in that career. I also bought a property that was significantly below the value banks etc were trying to convince me to borrow. I'm still up a creek without a paddle now. It was all completely and utterly pointless and all the hard work has earned me is the right for people more fortunate than myself to call me lazy, scrounger, stupid or whatever they feel like that day and has given me enough knowledge to know that I will never have a life. By life I don't mean luxury btw before I get flamed just the security of shelter and nutrition. I now find myself craving blissful ignorance.

I just feel sad that given my time again, I would have picked a different degree. I think there was too much pressure to go to uni when I was younger: if I could have done it again I'd have taken time out (gap year), worked, and really figured out what it was that would give me a great, stable rewarding career. It's ridiculous that your life can hinge on a decision you made at the age of 16/17.

I say that from the pov of being unable to afford to retrain - it sucks that the first decisions (wr to education) I made were the wrong ones, although it's not surprising given I was so young.

minus - I understand when you say you made what you thought were sensible decisions, that's all any of us can try to do really. I hope you get a break soon, I really do. take care of yourself.

I am also jealous of one of my close friends: she met and married a DP that has a well paid job, so was able to do some retraining and is now on her way.

My DP is not well paid, not ambitious and has no ideas of what he could retrain to do (much as I love him and he is awesome). I am the main earner so I don't have the luxury of being able to rely on someone else to support me. Having said that, I wouldn't like to rely on someone else. You never know when they might go away.

boschy there are no guarantees of course, but there are lots of things we can do for and tell our DC to ensure their futures.

They are going to need certain skills and lots of information that we can help with.

wordfactory you are right about equipping our DC for the future; but I still worry about how they will cope with that future which seems to demand increasingly complex skills that they may or may not be able to develop. Yes there will always be a demand for brain surgeons, but if intellectually someone is not up to that or similar, where do they end up?

"I had a good education, did well at school etc then (according to my parents.) I rebelled at 18 (I didn't go to uni shock ) instead I chose to see my boyfriend and get a job...
Fast forward a decade and I have been employed by the same company 9yrs, married that boyfriend, own a decent sized home, had a DC, can afford 'comfortables' like nice cars & holidays.

My sister who did go to uni (few yes older than I am) is in a completely different boat, her and her partner both work full time, bring home decent wages, yet can't afford to buy a house/get married/have DC, they do rent a small house at the mo. And are pretty much in the same position as OP

I guess what I'm trying to say is that because I made those choices earlier on it's got me to were I am now, had I not I would be in the same e as my sis & OP right now.. I don't think it's down to how hard you work, or how lucky you are it's more about the choices you make and the paths you chose IYKWIM!"

Doesn't make any sense as their position seems to be due to the current economic climate - your life is easier because your decision were made earlier, which is just lucky for you as the recession didn't stop you. If they were in the same position (well educated, good jobs & wages before the recession) they'd be as ok as you are.

boschy being super intelligent is nice skill, but IMHO it is not necessary.
What you need is to be intelligent enough.

Then you need lots and lots of skills and to be very very flexible.

You also need the ability to pin point what you excel at and how to monetorise it.

wordfactory you make good sense.... I am struggling with your 2nd and 3rd points at the moment in relation to myself, so probably looking at things a bit doom and gloom-y!

To the OP, perhaps you were mis-sold a dream by whoever "they" were.

You don't have to go back that many decades to find that most people did not own their own homes. Most people rented all their lives & mortgages were almost unheard of. It was only really post in the second half of the 1930s and after WW2 that home ownership really took off & that was largely fuelled by the drive the economy through construction.

In many European countries people don't own their own homes & never think twice about it. Perhaps we are too hung up about it in this country?

We have incredibly high standards too these days & I'm not saying that is wrong, but perhaps we all want too much. My granny thought that they lived in luxury because her family had their own outdoor privy and a tap in the kitchen. Nowadays, the conditions that she & her 12 siblings lived in would be considered abject poverty. Again, I'm not suggesting that we can go backwards, but just what is a "comfortable" lifestyle? Do you have to have an xbox, a Wii, a new car every 3 years, a new mobile phone, an ipod, a Dyson, visits to the dental hygenist?

I don't know - but I think we need to think more about what really matters. In this case are you & your partner happy, do you think you would make good parents, can you afford to keep a roof above your heads, eat decent food & enjoy life? If the answer is yes, then enjoy!

If someone told you that if you work hard you will definitely get everything you want then yes, you were lied to because that just isn't true. It hasn't ever been true and it probably never will be true. If you work hard you are more likely to get a good job but working hard doesn't guard you against making bad decisions and it doesn't protect you from the uncontrollable things that can happen in your life.

Part of maturing and achieving stable contentment and happiness is accepting the fact that the way life goes is out of our hands to a certain extent and that external factors such as money and housing, while important, are not the be all and end all.

'money and housing, while important, are not the be all and end all.'

If you mean the difference between being rich in a big house and being comfortable I would agree with you. On the other hand there are many people these days who are homeless, don't know where there next meal is coming from or if they have a home freeze as they cannot heat it. For these people some money is the be all and end all. Being really hungry, really cold and having nowhere to go or fearing that having nowhere to go very soon is no life at all yet that is reality for many in Britain today.

Is that the situation you're in Minus?

Nearly Dana, camped out in my mum's spare room, otherwise we would have nowhere to go. There are people a lo worse off too, they don't have family with a spare room and I would estimate quite a few people tbh.

That's a very tough situation to be and I could see how it would make you feel terrible. I hope things improve for you soon.

The thing is I don't think wanting a home, a family of your own and the ability to retire before you die, as outlandish luxuries.

But in order to get these things the youngergeneration are getting to have to make very shrewd decisions.

I agree wordfactory, they're not outlandish luxuries. Nor is wanting to live to 60, but that just doesn't happen for some people, either through bad luck or bad choices. We are lucky to live in a country where if you do fall on hard times you can get benefits, where healthcare and schooling are free and where famine, war and extreme weather are not immediate threats. It would be great if everyone could have a house and enough money to have as many children as they want but that's not the reality unfortunately.

I have a home and a family because of shrewd choices and also because of luck. I'm aware that could all be taken away from me in the blink of an eye and so I cherish what I have.

When I was a teen/early 20s I was shit scared of ending up like this. I wanted to make sure I'd never be at risk of being made homeless (again) by unscrupulous landlords or leaving it too late to have DCs.

So I prioritised. I chose to live on a shoestring, in a hell-hole of an area for a year while I did unpaid work experience. This eventually landed me a very good job. When I started work I continued to like hand to mouth and put all my salary into a deposit for a flat. After 6 months and maxing out my overdraft I bought a tiny flat in a still pretty awful area (friends wouldnt visit!). 2 years later I had enough equity to buy a nice big flat in a sought after area. During those years I went without all the things my comtemporaries took for granted (travel outwith Europe, nice cars, going out at the weekend, new clothes, haircuts) but now I'm the one with a tiny mortgage whilst they are still paying sky-high rents and having to move from flat to flat every 6 months.

I also chose to have a baby on my own because I didnt want to risk waiting forever for 'mr right' to never come along. I take a lot of stick from smug marrieds for this but I'd make all the same choices again.

I feel sorry for the people now in their early 20s who dont have these options i did, but I'm 31, and i'm sorry but people our age DID have it good if you made the right choices.

I must be living on a different planet. I work with, am friends with lots of under 30s & they all seem to have homes. Some of them have young families too. They may not own their homes, but they seem to live comfortable lives. Their jobs range from childminders, to office workers, to carpenters to analysts. Some of them are looking to buy their own home & are saving like mad for deposits - but I had to do that too. The 100% mortgage was a very short lived beast. Are we really saying that life has got soooooooooooo much worse? What are we comparing it to? 10 years ago? 100 years ago? 50 years ago?