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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Can abuse ever be a child's fault?

237 replies

MrsHuxtable · 01/11/2011 13:16

I have a thread on relationships about my mother but things have come to a head and I want some quick replies.

Basically, my mum hit me a lot when I was a child (not just a slap, but properly with a hover pipe etc) and also abused me emotionally. She's visiting us rigth now and she kept being all negative about me and during the fight I told her how her abuse has damged me and is still influencing my life.

She then went on to say that firstly she hadn't abused me and my memory was wrong. She then admitted to the abuse but said it was my fault because I was provoking her and was already bad as a 2year old.

She is now feeling sorry for herself and packing her stuff. I don't know what to do. Will I just let her leave?

Can abuse ever be a child's fault? How horrible would I have had to be for this to happen to me?

OP posts:
working9while5 · 01/11/2011 13:44

My 23 month is asleep here in my arms. How could anyone take a plastic pipe to something so small and innocent, so trusting and defenceless? She is a bitch.

Rhubarb0oooo · 01/11/2011 13:44

I also recommend to you the Triple P parenting course, your midwife or Health Visitor will know about it. It will help you to overcome many problems you may experience with your own child and it will also reinforce the fact that as a child, you were not responsible for your parents actions.
You have not been given a great example of motherhood, but that does not mean that you yourself cannot go on to be a great mother.

No doubt this woman will continue to be negative and will criticise everything you do with your child. If a friend acted in that way you would not see that friend again. She might have given birth to you, but she has no more rights over you than a friend. It should be her comforting you right now and saying sorry, but no, she is downstairs making your dp feel sorry for her.
She is selfish and self-absorbed. Live your life without her, you'll feel a lot happier for it.

exoticfruits · 01/11/2011 13:45

There is only one answer-NO.
Anyone at all can only control themselves, they can't control others (however much they might like to). Your mother was in control of her own behaviour, no one, least of all a small DC, is responsible for her actions. It is her problem-don't let her off load it on to you.
It is emotional abuse for her to make you question whether you deserved it.
Let her leave.

MrsLovettsChiddelyPie · 01/11/2011 13:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

grovel · 01/11/2011 13:47

Hit her with your Henry on the way out.

LaPruneDeMaTante · 01/11/2011 13:49

Do see if you can get some counselling before your baby's born, and rest assured that if you're aware of what's right and wrong, you won't be making her mistakes.
It is a challenge when you haven't been properly parented to know how far to go with a toddler and how best to discipline children in general. There's a lot of helpful advice out there though.

PollyMorfic · 01/11/2011 13:52

My youngest was spectacularly hard work at age 2 - stroppy, difficult, defiant, oblivious to reason or consequences. Even now at 8 she can still be very tricky, and has caused me more grey hairs and frayed nerves than all my others put together.

But you know what? She is also very warm and loving, very sweet and extremely annoying funny. I adore her and wouldn't be without her. She has been much harder to parent than any of my other dc, but that's my problem not hers, and I deal with it by hitting the gin sounding off and ranting with my dh and having a good whinge with my friends. It's called being a grownup.

Let your ma go, and wait for her to get back in touch when she's ready to be nice again prepared to behave like an adult. It may be a long wait, but if she values your company and that of your dc, she'll have to learn how to play by your rules not hers. If she doesn't, then she's made her choice. You can't save her from herself, and it's not your job to try. It sounds as if you've made a lovely family of your own, and you need to protect yourself and your family first and foremost.

TheScaryJessie · 01/11/2011 13:53

Two-year-olds aren't bad!

perceptionreality · 01/11/2011 13:53

Sorr to cut and paste but have you read 'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward? Extract as follows - you will see your mother's behaviour here;

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly us it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ....

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

-----------------

Have a look at the Stately Homes threads in relationships - there are a lot of us there with similar issues.

TheOriginalFAB · 01/11/2011 13:54

Just another voice saying no it was not your fault. She was in control of her own emotions and choices and she decided to hit you.

Let this woman go. Let her leave your life if you want too. She doesn't deserve a lovely daughter and grand child.

I have cut my mother out of my life (not that she was really in it) and it is the best thing I have ever done. She doesn't want me anyway, just my kids.

Your husband sounds lovely and supportive.

Thumbwitch · 01/11/2011 13:55

Has she gone yet? I am SO GLAD she is leaving and tbh I hope you choose to sever contact with her. You have done really well to keep her in your house as long as you have.

NO as everyone else has said, abuse can NEVER be a child's fault, because no matter how bad the child is (and you almost certainly weren't) the adult has a CHOICE how to respond to the behaviour - and abuse is the WRONG CHOICE.

Your mother abused you because she chose to. She did it deliberately and continued to do it. She may not have realised how shockingly bad her behaviour was because she justified it to herself and is still doing so - but if she took a step outside of her own selfish views and saw what she was doing objectively, she might be horrified (might not of course!).

I know she is your mother - but only in biological terms - in parenting terms she hasn't done that well by you at all. So very sorry that you are in a state - but I do agree with most people that you need to keep her at arms length from now on, if not cut contact altogether.

Remember that you too have choices - you can choose to distance yourself in every way from the woman who gave birth to you - and be a completely different mother to your own precious baby. xx

working9while5 · 01/11/2011 13:56

Imagine her possible AIBU if you can, see if there is a way of making what she is suggesting sound reasonable:

My daughter is pregnant with her first child. I am staying with her and her dp. She started a row where she said that I had abused her. I did hit her when she was a child and she raised a particular incident where I hit her with the plastic leg of a hoover. I had to point out to her just how obnoxious she had been prior to that incident, it was as though she really didn't see the role SHE had to play in that dynamic. It occurs to me that when she is a mother she will realise that children really can be bad, she certainly was from a very early age and I have told her that now. I would say from the age of 2 she was nothing but rudeness to me even though I worked hard to give her the things she wanted. So, yes, I hit her.. but obviously not hard enough as I was still finding the need to hit her at 9 when if I'd done it properly perhaps I'd have beaten that bad streak out of her. AIBU to think that hitting your child when they are being rude and unreasonable is pretty normal and not "abuse"? I am disgusted with her attitude and am leaving her house. She isn't even going to stop me. After all I did for her! AIBU? Well, am I?

Does that sound REASONABLE to you?

TheScaryJessie · 01/11/2011 13:56

Ooop, pressed submit too soon.

Two-year-olds and up do naughty, messy things sometimes, and all that. They test what they are allowed to do. That's part of childhood.

She was an adult.

ShirleyGoesBananas · 01/11/2011 13:57

Congratulations on your pregnancy OP.

Take yourself out of the situation. Be objective. Here's an example of something similar that happened to me when I was about 10. My mum pinned me to the floor by sitting on my chest and then repeatedly banged my head into the floor. I don't remember what I'd done to provoke it. My mum claims it didn't happen and that if it did, it was because I was a monster of a child. Do you think I did anything to deserve it?

It's so black and white when you think about anyone else in that situation, isn't it?

chipmonkey · 01/11/2011 13:58

Children can be bloody hard work, they tantrum, cry, scribble on the newly-painted walls. Do they deserve to be abused because of these normal, childlike attributes? NO!

Let the old bag go and tell her dh to stop wasting his time arguing with her and come upstairs and give you a cuddle.

chipmonkey · 01/11/2011 13:59

Shirley Sad

Swankyswishing · 01/11/2011 13:59

Definitely not your fault! I've been there as a child, emotionally abused by my mother, who has tried numerous times over the years to blame it on me. Months of counselling made me realise that it wasn't my fault. I spent well over 30 years walking around thinking I was an evil, nasty person.

Floggingmolly · 01/11/2011 14:00

Let her leave. Don't let her come back. Ever.

porcamiseria · 01/11/2011 14:01

you poor thing

Look no real advice as have limitied experience in this field

BUT ABISE IS NEVER EVER A CHILDS FAULT. EVER

I am sorry you had this shit in your life XXXX

PosiesOfPoison · 01/11/2011 14:02

No, never.

And the only thing you can do about your mother is take a long hot bath after she's gone and cleanse the nastiness off, concentrate on your baby and get some proper psychotherapy.

Take carexxx

LesserOfTwoWeevils · 01/11/2011 14:04

Well done for telling her how you feel about her treatment of you.
Part of how you're feeling now is probably leftover guilt and shame that were part of the pattern of abuse. You're conditioned to feel that it's really all your fault and that you mustn't criticise your mother.
My mother does exactly the same thing?I was a "terrible baby" and embarrassed her by crying on the night I was born! My behaviour just went downhill from there as far as she's concerned.
Let her go. She's the one who has done something wrong, both then and now?not you.

ShirleyGoesBananas · 01/11/2011 14:05

Thanks chipmonkey x x

I really want the OP to know she isn't alone.

Ephiny · 01/11/2011 14:07

No, of course it wasn't your fault. It's never, ever the child's fault, even if their behaviour is a bit 'challenging'. How could you possibly be responsible for something like that as a two-year old Shock, or even as an older child.

She sounds like my mum. Both the denial, and the then claiming that she had no choice, it was the only way to deal with a child like me etc etc. We don't talk about it any more. There's no point.

I would let her go.

MrsHuxtable · 01/11/2011 14:09

Ahhh, just deleted a long reply by accident.

I do have the Toxic Parents book, though haven't read it.

I've had counselling before, paid for it privately as was too embarrassed to speak to GP but I can't say it helped. I don't think the councellor was really up to the job and now I can no longer afford to pay that kind of money.

I do realise I have to do something about my feelings.

I get the impression that my mum is very bitter about her separation from my dad when I was 1 and blames me for it. She has told me all my life, that I am bad like him and have inherited his bad character traits. In fact, she repeated the same thing earlier when we had the fight.

I do admitt that I haven't been the most welcoming since she arrived on Wednesday (which she also critisized) but firstly, she more or less invited herself and secondly, she knew before she came that I wouldn't have the energy to play hostess like I usually do. I'm off sick with pregnancy complications, trying to arrange a nightmare house move in 4 weeks time and to top it off my beloved cat fell ill just before my mum arrived and passed away on Saturday. It was horrendous. So I kind of hoped she'd understand I'm not up to much. Plus, for some reason, I don't want her to see me with my bump or have her touch it. I can't show emotion in front of her, it makes me so uncomfortable.

I'm really trying to work on myself and every day, I was trying to be nice to her and just overlook her flaws but as soon as she opens her mouth the criticism starts again and I fall for it and tell her to not say things like that. She then can feel like the victim again and looks like a sad puppy, which makes me feel guilty. Vicious circle.

OP posts:
TeWihara · 01/11/2011 14:11

Don't feel guilty. You haven't done anything wrong. You're still not doing anything wrong.

Has she left yet?