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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

in relation to my cleaner and holiday pay?

139 replies

HappyAsIAm · 26/10/2011 14:33

We have had the same weekly cleaner for the past 3 or so years. She does cleaning and ironing for 6 hours a week. Her hourly rate is £9, but I pay her £10, because I think that's fair. She is very reliable and trustworthy, and does helpful things like answers the door if I'm not there and takes in a delivery etc. I pay her cash every week, so £60. I don't ask whether she pays tax etc.

She is a very good cleaner, and I am happy with her. By equal measure, I think I am a good employer - in the past I have given her wages in advance on occasion when he needs the money, have lent her £200 when she needed a despoit for her new lease etc. I give her £50 at Christmas and at easter, and sometimes provide her with lunch (always with drinks) if we are eating our lunch at home whilst she is there. (Usually we are out for nearly the whole time she is there.)

Anyway - to the point. We are going on holiday for nearly 3 weeks. So that would be 3 weeks in a row that we wouldn't be in the house when she was due to work There isn't anything for her to do at home if we are not there and messing the place up and producing ironing as I am on top of everything else. I know that she needs the money, so I have proposed to her that:

(i) during week 1 of our holiday, she changes her working day to a day that we are there
(ii) during week 2, she doesn't come at all
(iii) during week three, she changes her working day to a day that we are there.

This is not because I want her to change her days, this is only to accommodate her as I know that she needs the money, and she knows that.

She is happy to change her working days on week one and week three. But she is not happy to not be paid for week 2, as she says she needs the £60, as her job wth us pays her the most of all of her cleaning jobs (she cleans for various people every week, but this only adds up to another 20 hours or so - some of this work is because I have put her in touch with friends of mine). She has asked for half her wages ie £30 for week 2, even though she will not be working that week.

I don't want to pay her £30 for doing nothing. We go on a three week holiday at about this time of year, and a one week holiday at Christmas. I feel that if I pay her £30 for this week, I will have to do the same at Christmas as I am setting a precedent. And I feel that I have already offered my compromise by suggesting that she change her working days on weeks one and three. So I have proposed that if she wants £30, she should do an extra hour and a half on week one and an extra hour and a half on week three for the £30. Obviously this means that she is still £30 'down' but she does have a week off. I know that she doesn't want the week off though, she would rather work that week and earn £60. I know that times are very hard for her as she has told me how much she is struggling with paying for things for her and her DCs (they live with her family in the West indies and she lives here to earn more money than she would in the WI). I also know that i live in relative luxury compared to what she and her family live in and I am conscious of this.

I have done all of this in a friendly and professional way. She has sent me a text back and said "well if thats the best you can do I'll have to live with it".

AIBU to be peeved?

OP posts:
Original poster
HappyAsIAm · 26/10/2011 14:33

Sorry its so long btw. Didn't want to drip-feed, so I ended up writing an essay.

OP posts:
DestinationUnknown · 26/10/2011 14:37

The way I do it with my cleaner (similar set up to yours) is: If I choose to be away, I pay her. If she chooses to be away (or is sick), I don't.

barrysnotter · 26/10/2011 14:38

YANBU TBH I don't think you should be paying her any holiday pay as long as you have given her plenty of notice. I take it you aren't in a contract with her? I think she is on to a good thing and she knows it.

MrsVoltar · 26/10/2011 14:39

I don't think you should feel guilty for not paying her 'holiday pay'. A lot of people are in jobs where they are paid only for the work they do & not part of a contract (thats why people want to work with contracts, to get sick pay, holiday pay etc).

MogandMe · 26/10/2011 14:39

Imagine if your boss told you that you had to change days to suit them, and to take an unpaid day of abscence just because they decided to shut the office.

Now do you think you should be paid as you didn't request the day off and you are available or are you happy to lose a days income?

DrNortherner · 26/10/2011 14:40

Well I think you are being more than fair. If she was employed by a hotel/restaurant as a casual waitress she would not be paid if they didn't need here. Simple as that.

Of course it's tough for her, but you sound to be a very flexible, generous and fair employer which more than makes up for missing one weeks pay imo.

MrsVoltar · 26/10/2011 14:40

But OP is not the cleaners boss (I don't think anyway), cleaner is probably self-employed.

barrysnotter · 26/10/2011 14:43

And not declaring her earnings possibly? MrsVoltar

larks35 · 26/10/2011 14:43

I think you're being a bit tight tbh. I don't have a cleaner but if I decide to keep my DS home from CM then I pay her, I have also payed her when she was ill (1 day in 3 years!). I think this is only fair really.

Chandon · 26/10/2011 14:43

I don't pay my cleaner (same set up, exactly! as yours) for the 2 weeks a year we are away. Also, I always allow her to take as much hols and whenever she wants (also about 2 weeks a year).

not sure what I would do in your case.

I guess I might ask her to come in, and do "special jobs" like a big spring clean, or cleaning windows or taking down and dusting off all books. Jobs you don't do every week.

i can see her point TBH. but can also see yours.

MrsCarriePooter · 26/10/2011 14:44

Legally she's probably a worker (I'm assuming you don't make her bring her own mop and bathroom cleaner, for example) and therefore she's entitled to holiday pay in any case which might well work out more than she's getting under this arrangement. If she's so good I'd pay the week she's asking for. Alternatively - do you really not have any big jobs which aren't regularly done that she could do - cleaning the cooker or defrosting the fridge/freezer, moving all the furniture to dust and vacuum behind it?

wineandroses · 26/10/2011 14:44

My cleaner is self-employed. If she works, she is paid and if she doesn't work (because she is on holiday or ill or because we are on holiday) she doesn't get paid. She is not your employee, so is not entitled to holiday pay (nor sick/maternity pay etc).

Having said that, when we go on holiday (2 weeks) we usually ask the cleaner to clean as normal for the first week, and on the second week we might ask her to do a one-off clean, like a good clean of windows. If we were away for 3 weeks, there would probably be a week when she would not be working for us.

LydiaWickham · 26/10/2011 14:45

well, are you her boss, or is she self employed owner of her own business and you are buying a service from her? It sounds to me like the latter.

I have a reguar waxing appointment, I prebook each time for the next. As long as I cancel several days in advance, I don't pay for the wax I don't have. I see this as no different.

blondie80 · 26/10/2011 14:45

YABU - same as MogandMe

At dd1's old day care, we had to pay a retainer fee (half price) when we were off on holidays and not using the service.

Bet she feels undervalued now as an employee esp since you have said yourself how good she is.

MrsOzz · 26/10/2011 14:46

Hmmmm it's a tough one. If was a hardnut I would say don't pay her if she isn't working. But I am a softy and she clearly depends on the money she earns from you.

Just an idea, but is there any deep cleaning she could do whilst you are away? Like the oven (really need to clean mine but can just never be naffed)? Or defrost the freezer? Or even any light gardening? Or cupboard sorting? Or carpet cleaning? You know the things you only want to do when the house is empty.

rhondajean · 26/10/2011 14:47

Are you really quibbling - and now in public - over £60 for a woman in those circumstances?

MrsOzz · 26/10/2011 14:48

Sorry i crossed posts with a couple of you there!

porcamiseria · 26/10/2011 14:49

I think you have been more than generous TBH

most people dont pay their cleaners holiday pay

BUT based on 3 years of work, and 6 hours a week she is more than just a part time employee isn't she?

Look you decide here, but you could say "I dont want to set a precedent here, BUT as a goodwill gesture I wll pay yopu £30" however remind her most cleaners dont get holiday pay

valiumredhead · 26/10/2011 14:49

Find her some jobs she can do while you are away if you want to keep her would be my advice!

fuzzynavel · 26/10/2011 14:49

You don't have to pay her at all really as she's probably off the cards.

The nice thing to do would be to pay her as she's been with you for a long time. Is it worth the bad feeling not to?

ImperialBlether · 26/10/2011 14:51

I think you're being mean, tbh. You are normally very generous to her, that's true, but do you realise what £60 means to her? To lose that suddenly would be awful.

Surely there's something she could do during the middle week?

Is it really worth spoiling your relationship with her?

valiumredhead · 26/10/2011 14:53

Are you really quibbling - and now in public - over £60 for a woman in those circumstances?

It's £30 - she's only asked for £30 not the full £60.

And yes I agree, £30 clearly isn't a huge amount to you OP and very obviously a huge amount to your cleaner.

QueenVictoria42 · 26/10/2011 14:54

I don't get paid for holidays that I take, but most of my customers still have me come and clean whilst they are away. I make sure the place is in tip top condition for their return, and because they are away it gives me time to do those jobs I don't have time for on a regular visit. Things like cleaning the fridge/freezer, an oven clean, windows, skirting boards, washing curtains etc.
It wouldn't bother me if they didn't pay me whilst they were away, but I must admit that I do appreciate the fact that they still have me come and clean. TBH it evens itself out, as I take time off for holidays, and they don't pay me.

MistyMountainHop · 26/10/2011 14:54

i'm a cleaner (self employed)

and if i don't work (for whatever reason) i don't get paid

i think YANBU and you sound a fab client! your cleaner is very lucky and should know it!

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar · 26/10/2011 14:55

It might be different where you are PO, but good cleaners are like gold dust and I'd be wanting to hang onto her.

I'd pay her as usual, but find other things for her to do (as MrsOzz suggests).

When we're away I want as many (trustworthy!) people as possible stopping by - I feel much better knowing the house isn't continually empty.