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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

in relation to my cleaner and holiday pay?

139 replies

HappyAsIAm · 26/10/2011 14:33

We have had the same weekly cleaner for the past 3 or so years. She does cleaning and ironing for 6 hours a week. Her hourly rate is £9, but I pay her £10, because I think that's fair. She is very reliable and trustworthy, and does helpful things like answers the door if I'm not there and takes in a delivery etc. I pay her cash every week, so £60. I don't ask whether she pays tax etc.

She is a very good cleaner, and I am happy with her. By equal measure, I think I am a good employer - in the past I have given her wages in advance on occasion when he needs the money, have lent her £200 when she needed a despoit for her new lease etc. I give her £50 at Christmas and at easter, and sometimes provide her with lunch (always with drinks) if we are eating our lunch at home whilst she is there. (Usually we are out for nearly the whole time she is there.)

Anyway - to the point. We are going on holiday for nearly 3 weeks. So that would be 3 weeks in a row that we wouldn't be in the house when she was due to work There isn't anything for her to do at home if we are not there and messing the place up and producing ironing as I am on top of everything else. I know that she needs the money, so I have proposed to her that:

(i) during week 1 of our holiday, she changes her working day to a day that we are there
(ii) during week 2, she doesn't come at all
(iii) during week three, she changes her working day to a day that we are there.

This is not because I want her to change her days, this is only to accommodate her as I know that she needs the money, and she knows that.

She is happy to change her working days on week one and week three. But she is not happy to not be paid for week 2, as she says she needs the £60, as her job wth us pays her the most of all of her cleaning jobs (she cleans for various people every week, but this only adds up to another 20 hours or so - some of this work is because I have put her in touch with friends of mine). She has asked for half her wages ie £30 for week 2, even though she will not be working that week.

I don't want to pay her £30 for doing nothing. We go on a three week holiday at about this time of year, and a one week holiday at Christmas. I feel that if I pay her £30 for this week, I will have to do the same at Christmas as I am setting a precedent. And I feel that I have already offered my compromise by suggesting that she change her working days on weeks one and three. So I have proposed that if she wants £30, she should do an extra hour and a half on week one and an extra hour and a half on week three for the £30. Obviously this means that she is still £30 'down' but she does have a week off. I know that she doesn't want the week off though, she would rather work that week and earn £60. I know that times are very hard for her as she has told me how much she is struggling with paying for things for her and her DCs (they live with her family in the West indies and she lives here to earn more money than she would in the WI). I also know that i live in relative luxury compared to what she and her family live in and I am conscious of this.

I have done all of this in a friendly and professional way. She has sent me a text back and said "well if thats the best you can do I'll have to live with it".

AIBU to be peeved?

OP posts:
RitaMorgan · 26/10/2011 18:23

That said though, personally I would pay her the money. She obviously needs it more than you do.

zeno · 26/10/2011 18:26

I'm glad you said that about the tax thing OK. Reading this thread I have felt so cross at the repeated assumption that a person paid in cash is therefore not declaring their income. So incredibly rude, and so superior.

ssd · 26/10/2011 18:32

op, pay her for the week but ask her to do the hours another time it suits you

eg. pay her 60 quid for the week, then when you are back your holidays ask her to come in double the days to work for the hours you have paid for

that way she gets her cash and you get the hours paid, worked

ssd · 26/10/2011 18:33

zeno, I'd bet my right arm the cleaner isnt declaring her income

ZillionChocolate · 26/10/2011 18:38

My cleaner is self employed and I know she pays taxes, she brought all her documents from HMRC when we met her. I wouldn't dream of paying her when I am on holiday or when she is. I pay her a higher hourly rate than I would expect is available for an employed cleaning job (same as I would pay an agency) and I expect that to make up for the lack of sick pay/holiday pay etc.

catgirl1976 · 26/10/2011 18:39

YABU and incredibly tight. It's feck all to you and a lot to her. Imagine leaving YOUR DCs and going to work in a different country just to send money back so they could have a better life. Those are not great circumstances.

But you enjoy your holiday and don't worry about the fact you are taking it has a huge financial impact on someone who is in that situation and has been doing a great job for you.

Technically, legally YANBU to not pay her. Ethically and as a human being I can't believe it even crossed your mind not to. £60 isnt' even dinner out one night on your holiday is it?

Be sure and send her a postcard.

oksonowwhat · 26/10/2011 18:39

She may be doing what i'm doing, on advice from the tax office themselves. They said if my customer didn't want an invoice it was best to have a small invoice book and fill that out for my own records each time. Which is what i do.

I do think though that she is abit presumptious expecting pay when not going in!!

C0smos · 26/10/2011 18:39

I pay my cleaner for all the holidays I take, usually about 5 weeks a year. She really struggles financially and has a small baby. She doesn't take leave except for 1 week at Xmas. I also pay her a months salary in December as a bonus. TBH I can afford it and she really needs the cash so it's no hardship.

hardboiledpossum · 26/10/2011 18:59

I'm not sure if the arrangement you have described means she is self employed. YABU

ArgyMargy · 26/10/2011 19:01

Get rid of cleaner, do the housework yourself and feel your guilt melt away along with the extra pounds from your waistline. I did it and have never looked back...

shagmundfreud · 26/10/2011 19:08

YANBU

People in these types of jobs don't usually expect to have any of the employment rights that the better off majority have, but fortunately many sign on and claim benefits illegally so they can eat and pay their bills when they are sick or when their employer decides to withdraw their offer of work either temporarily or permanently.

zeno · 26/10/2011 19:09

Oh well done SSD. Kind of you to demonstrate ignorant presumption so well!

shagmundfreud · 26/10/2011 19:21

Did you mean me Zeno?

No - I should have pointed out that the many people in low paid casual work may have a spouse/partner who is earning. But those who don't, need SOME sort of income when they're sick or their employer doesn't need them. Otherwise how do they eat and pay the rent?

mololoko · 26/10/2011 19:27

what catgirl said. it's pocket money to you and a big deal to her. I can't believe you'd even consider not paying her.

PrincessScrumpy · 26/10/2011 19:27

I used to pay cm when I was on hols (12weeks a year) and not pay if she took hols. I think with a cleaner I'd get her to do some extra jobs like washing paint work down, windows etc

PrincessScrumpy · 26/10/2011 19:32

Oh and I'd be surprised if she earns enough to pay taxes.

zeno · 26/10/2011 19:45

No shagmund, I was responding to ssd's post at 18:33

Solola · 26/10/2011 19:46

Think it sounds like she has a good deal. I have done cleaning work and would not expect to be paid when client take holidays. YANBU to be peeved by the tone of her text.

Acekicker · 26/10/2011 19:56

Gosh - I'd always assumed that people did the 'pay them if you're away but not if they're away' approach ie they don't lose out because you've decided to take a holiday but if they can't make it then they don't get paid.

If you've got a great cleaner and want to keep her then I'd seriously consider paying her the money. I know I'd consider it money well spent to keep a trustworthy cleaner rather than have them be less good/face the hassle of having to find another one...

malakadoush · 26/10/2011 20:03

bloody hell catgirl that was harsh.

catgirl1976 · 26/10/2011 20:05

It was a bit.

But I really felt sorry for the cleaner and a bit disgusted the OP would even consider not paying her tbh, given her circumstances and the fact the OP booked the holiday, not the cleaner.

malakadoush · 26/10/2011 20:06

I'm shocked by some of these responses! The lady is a self employed cleaner the OP has no obligation to pay her when she is on holiday. Her finances are not the OP's responsibility - she isn't a charity.

For what it's worth OP I think you're being very reasonable, I think her text was rude but I do take the point others have made about keeping her if she is good.

chickydoo · 26/10/2011 20:08

If my cleaner is away I don't pay, If I am away I don't pay.
I usually give her a few extra hours a month as I know she needs the cash, but there is no point her cleaning if we are not here.

lurkerspeaks · 26/10/2011 20:17

Wow! A real mix of opinon on here.

I pay my cleaner (who is self employed and does her tax & NI, I know because she asked m to help her with her paperwork) when I'm on holiday but not when she is away although I will sometimes give her an extra weeks pay on the last day before she goes away. I also give her a cash bonus at Christmas.

I do this because she is a really good, really reliable cleaner (even if she does drive me mad sometimes because she moves things in my kitchen). When I'm away I view it as paying to maintain her availability to clean my property.

Sometimes I get her to come in and deep clean, sometimes there is literally nothing to do so I just tell her not to bother coming.

I think it is mean to not pay her when you were away - she had no choice that she wouldn't receive an income at that time. If you aren't happy to do so or to let her into the house in your absence then I think the least you can do is offer her the opportunity to work the (full) hours at an alternative time.

malakadoush · 26/10/2011 20:21

BUT when you employ a cleaner direct rather than through a company, they earn alot more - that's the reality of being self employed and the reason for that is that as a SE person they don't get holiday pay or sick pay.

My cleaner gets £10.50 an hour, when she worked via an agency she only got £6 an hour.

As it happens I try to give her other things to do when I am on holiday, but she did lose one weeks pay this year. But I do give a bonus at Christmas. So overall she does well.

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