Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

in relation to my cleaner and holiday pay?

139 replies

HappyAsIAm · 26/10/2011 14:33

We have had the same weekly cleaner for the past 3 or so years. She does cleaning and ironing for 6 hours a week. Her hourly rate is £9, but I pay her £10, because I think that's fair. She is very reliable and trustworthy, and does helpful things like answers the door if I'm not there and takes in a delivery etc. I pay her cash every week, so £60. I don't ask whether she pays tax etc.

She is a very good cleaner, and I am happy with her. By equal measure, I think I am a good employer - in the past I have given her wages in advance on occasion when he needs the money, have lent her £200 when she needed a despoit for her new lease etc. I give her £50 at Christmas and at easter, and sometimes provide her with lunch (always with drinks) if we are eating our lunch at home whilst she is there. (Usually we are out for nearly the whole time she is there.)

Anyway - to the point. We are going on holiday for nearly 3 weeks. So that would be 3 weeks in a row that we wouldn't be in the house when she was due to work There isn't anything for her to do at home if we are not there and messing the place up and producing ironing as I am on top of everything else. I know that she needs the money, so I have proposed to her that:

(i) during week 1 of our holiday, she changes her working day to a day that we are there
(ii) during week 2, she doesn't come at all
(iii) during week three, she changes her working day to a day that we are there.

This is not because I want her to change her days, this is only to accommodate her as I know that she needs the money, and she knows that.

She is happy to change her working days on week one and week three. But she is not happy to not be paid for week 2, as she says she needs the £60, as her job wth us pays her the most of all of her cleaning jobs (she cleans for various people every week, but this only adds up to another 20 hours or so - some of this work is because I have put her in touch with friends of mine). She has asked for half her wages ie £30 for week 2, even though she will not be working that week.

I don't want to pay her £30 for doing nothing. We go on a three week holiday at about this time of year, and a one week holiday at Christmas. I feel that if I pay her £30 for this week, I will have to do the same at Christmas as I am setting a precedent. And I feel that I have already offered my compromise by suggesting that she change her working days on weeks one and three. So I have proposed that if she wants £30, she should do an extra hour and a half on week one and an extra hour and a half on week three for the £30. Obviously this means that she is still £30 'down' but she does have a week off. I know that she doesn't want the week off though, she would rather work that week and earn £60. I know that times are very hard for her as she has told me how much she is struggling with paying for things for her and her DCs (they live with her family in the West indies and she lives here to earn more money than she would in the WI). I also know that i live in relative luxury compared to what she and her family live in and I am conscious of this.

I have done all of this in a friendly and professional way. She has sent me a text back and said "well if thats the best you can do I'll have to live with it".

AIBU to be peeved?

OP posts:
oksonowwhat · 26/10/2011 21:25

I think some of you are really nice saying you would pay if you were away. But to be honest, as a cleaner myself, i don't think any cleaner would expect to be paid when she is not actually there and cleaning!!! I really don't, and going by the cleaners who have posted on here i think they agree too!

But, i think you all sound really nice and fair, i just wish my clients felt the same. Actually this thread is making me dread going in on FridaySad Just because i'm starting to think they don't value me!! And i work really hard for them!!!!

LydiaWickham · 26/10/2011 21:53

BTW - I was planning on getting a cleaner after Christmas, you've just all convinced me to go via an agency rather than just ask around for recomendations! I can't be dealing with all this, I want a contract and clearly defined terms...

JustRedbin · 26/10/2011 22:00

You don't say whether you are employed or self employed, but if employed you will be being paid for the period you are away.
We pay our cleaner to look after our cats when we go on holiday.

oksonowwhat · 26/10/2011 22:01

Agency is not the way to go! I worked for a well known agency and they are a rip off in my experience! Just make it straight with a cleaner from the word go what you expect from him/her and about wages etc., Well, thats my opinion anyway, for what its worth.

minipie · 27/10/2011 10:50

oksonowwhat I do pay my cleaner when I'm away but I also expect her to come in and do some work (eg clean oven). Think quite a few others have said the same. I wouldn't pay her to not come in at all...!

malakadoush · 27/10/2011 10:59

I agree - avoid agencies - I used a well known one, it was extortionate and crap. the lady who works for me is fabulous and we have an agreement to discuss anything that bugs either of us.

PrincessScrumpy · 27/10/2011 11:41

Where do I find a cleaner if I avoid agencies?

minipie · 27/10/2011 11:43

Ask friends and neighbours for recommendations, or failing that, try asking on your Mumsnet Local.

LeNameChange · 27/10/2011 11:52

Very late to this and have not read entire thread. How about paying her to come for 6 hours but ask her to do the jobs she never gets round to (washing windows, etc).

SunRaysthruClouds · 27/10/2011 12:51

OP As i see it you are risking the goodwill you have with your cleaner which has built up over 3 years for £30, irrespective of all the red herrings above about tax and contracts and all that stuff.

Not worth it and YABU.

I wonder how much your 3 week holiday is costing...

notcitrus · 27/10/2011 12:53

I've had cleaners for the last 10 years (been disabled so it's a necessity not a luxury), and assuming I could give them a month's notice or so, wouldn't pay for no work. However I would suggest moving some hours and doing extra cleaning so they weren't out of pocket, but in practice they tend to end up helping a friend instead. In return they often ask if they can come on a different day as they've got a job/holiday/something on.

We've gone to agencies for one-offs as they invariably don't allow fortnightly cleaning (weekly would be too much for us), and then the cleaner invariably gives her mobile number and says to get in touch. When after a year or so they get a permanent job or move, they usually bring a friend who can take over - as happened last week. Luckily the friends so far have been adequate cleaners - I hope the new lass we met last week will be OK.

whatdoiknowanyway · 27/10/2011 13:55

I've had cleaners for about 15 years. 2 different people but with both the agreement was that I paid them for 2 weeks holiday a year (so £40/week).
Any other absence was unpaid. Seems standard in the area where I live.

chicletteeth · 27/10/2011 14:49

OP YANBU.
You are being generous already.
Can't believe people on here saying you should just suck it up and pay - why on earth should you!

When I was self-employed, I didn't get holiday pay, as presumably most self-employed people don't. Why is your cleaner any different.

chicletteeth · 27/10/2011 14:51

What has the price of the OP's holiday got to do with anything?

sarahtigh · 27/10/2011 15:24

a self employed contract can specify certain hours and times

most dentists like myself are self employed but contract will expect cetain things like being available for x hours per week during opening hours so if contract expects 37 hours and practice is open 9-1 and 2-6 , you can choose which 3 hours you are unavailable, it might also specify rota for on call; maximum number of days abscence permitted per year, but you are not paid for abscences and if off for a while ( like you break a leg or something you are expected to provide locum) I just say this to illustrate that terms can be fixed and still self employed.

there are a variety of tests for self employment not all of them apply to everyone

another is if you make a mistake or break something you have to put it right at your expense in your time, ie if cleaner knocks over something on the newly cleaned floor she has to re-clean it but can not charge for extra time, if you were an employee and did that it would be normal work

A self employed cleaner would still generally be expected to turn up every thursday at 10am,

Deflatedballoonbelly · 27/10/2011 15:24

I am a cleaner, and also I am feeling undervalued! I work like a bloody dog tbh. I never get paid when they go on holiday. Ever. Not even a Christmas card. but thats by the by.

I have a lovely lady who always manages to find me jobs to do when she goes away for a few weeks here and there. I also look after her house, pull curtains, pick up post etc.

When my clients come back from holiday its always to an immaculate house, fresh bread, eggs and milk. Well, the clients that pay me to come in the day before they come back or whose house I have sat.

OP YABU and YANBU. I would find her a job to do that week and pay her the £30.

We work hard for our money.

Deflatedballoonbelly · 27/10/2011 15:26

The opening para. of my post is one particular client, who doesnt even give me notice when they are going away. I just usually get a late night text, and no work for two weeks.

diabolo · 27/10/2011 15:50

I always pay mine if I choose to be away. Why should she go without because I am on holiday? And I can't let her in to do other jobs for me when I go on holiday as my husband locks the house up in a manner that would defeat most people (including me).

If she is ill / absent for any reason, she doesn't get paid.

Seems only fair to me.

trixymalixy · 27/10/2011 15:53

I get my cleaners through an agency. The policy is that we do not pay the cleaners if we are on holiday. I think that is standard.

I usually have them come in if we're on holiday for only a week, or one of the weeks if we're on holiday for 2 weeks.

I think we're pretty good to our cleaners too. I pay more than the agency recommend and give a good Xmas bonus. I also pay them if we are having work done in the house and don't need them to come in e.g. When the hall floor was being tiled and they couldn't have got in the house.

HTH

trixymalixy · 27/10/2011 15:59

Oh and for those that say agencies are crap I totally disagree. I have employed cleaners directly and had nothing but bother with them not turning up normally the day my MIL is due to visit or I'm about to give birth, the worst possible times! I found a fabulous agency and it is so much less hassle, she arranges stand ins if the cleaner doesn't turn up or is ill etc.

Animation · 27/10/2011 16:07

I think you should pay her the £30.

You have a good cleaner and she's been with you for 3 years.

oksonowwhat · 27/10/2011 16:44

I have to agree, that is the main advantage with an agency cleaner, they never let you down. They will either send someone else in or in some cases the managers do it themselves.

But, i do know how they train their staff and they are on very tight deadlines the agencies i have been involved with do not clean as well as any private cleaners i know.

SeptimusBreakspeare · 16/03/2023 21:53

Your cleaner turns up at a time arranged by you to do work arranged by you. They are a worker by any definition. The fact you pay her cash and don't deduct paye, NI etc is beside the point. They are entitled to holiday pay and to be paid when you are not there.

MuggleMe · 16/03/2023 22:29

Surely there's some deep cleaning job she could do?? Hire a carpet machine, clean the washing machine drawers etc, clean inside of cupboards...

Cleaners need to be trustworthy, reliable and good at cleaning. How would you feel if you lost her?

If she put her rates up to £12/hr to bank money for unpaid holidays how would you feel?

DDivaStar · 16/03/2023 22:34

I wouldn't want to rock the boat for the sake of £30.

If you really don't want to pay her when not working are there not some bigger jobs she could do? Ie washing down skirtings, cleaning out kitchen cupboards, even cleaning the insides of the windows, washing net curtains.....

Swipe left for the next trending thread