Hubby bathing baby

[Gonzo33]

Ever since our dd was born my husband has refused to bathe her. He loves the bones of her, and does absolutely everything else for her but he won't bathe her (unless I am not home) because he is frightened of being accused of being a paedophile. Fwiw one of his friends was accused in the not too distant past (not guilty I hasten to add - just malicious rumour).

AIBU to think it is a sad society we live in when a child's own father feels that way?

CocoPopsAddict, I don't think anyone on this thread is saying there is anything wrong with dad washing baby.

It's about the poison that has been spread that every man needs to be watched closely for signs he might be abusing. Once you have read a dozen threads on MN about how every man on his own is a danger and should be reported it's hard to forget it.

So you get men avoiding situations where they might appear to be doing something wrong and unable to just act naturally.

It becomes like that thing where you say 'don't think about the elephant'. Now it's been said you can't help thinking about the elephant can you.

Of course it's mad, but the fact is there really are people out there watching men to see if they stand too close to a child, a school, a park etc. So a climate of fear and unease is generated.

But most people don't think every man on his own is a danger! I am obviously missing these threads as I have not really come across much of this attitude on Mumsnet apart from people who do get told they are being unreasonable by the rest of the posters.

Most people do not give a toss if a man washes his baby or takes his kids to the park. Unless they have been reading too much peedo hysteria.

You're right - most people don't. Also in recent times I've noticed that normal people DO challenge the loons. It is getting gradually better.

Unfortunately it doesn't take many of them to make people feel uncomfortable and to put the idea in your head.

I used the example of me (I'm a man remember) sitting on a bench near the kids play area. Now there's a really good chance that none of these loons live near me and so I'd be fine. But... easiest to sit on another bench isn't it - just to be on the safe side?

I've been thinking about this thread and I've had a slight change of heart. I caught up with my sister and her daughter yesterday and it reminded me that I too, feel slightly uncomfortable changing my niece, especially if things are messy. Don't get me wrong, I do it, but I do feel slightly embarrased about it Silly I know

That is how my husband and I felt for the first year of changing MILs nappies after she became doublely incontinent. She has a carer, so he (yes, he, chosen deliberatly because he was a man) does the bulk of the changes but we both still have pitch in as and when needed.

It was how I felt when I first started teaching micro students, who would demand to be taken to the bathroom, observed while in action, and then look expectantly at me at the end of operations.

Same sensation when I washed and dressed my father in law hours after his death. I'd only ever shaken his hand until that day.

It is a question of "new" or "non habitual" intimacy. It's not at all unusal for people to feel awrkard when getting up close and personal with the nudity and bodily funtions of others, that they have never had that level of emotional closeness or physical contact with before.

Intimacy is a spectrum, that ranges from the sexual to the most decidely not sexual. Framing discomfort at new/occasional intimacy with a most definatly sexual and decidely perverse tinge does not bode well for anybody on the wrong end of it.

Humans, especially small ones, tend to do far better with a healthy model of intimacy modeled amd practiced.

In other words it is fine to feel embarressed or uncomfortable, espcially if it's new or unexpected intimacy, but not fine to turn it into a "you are a gun loaded with sexually charged bullets that could be turned on me" sort of thing.

I agree Fastweb. I really think it's important to recognize our own irrational reactions and address them rather than just giving in and accomodating them. I simply meant to say that I can at least sympathise with the Dad's discomfort.

On the other hand, I think my DH would be an amazing school teacher (and I would love him to quit banking!) but we both agree that with the culture of blame and peado-hysteria that pervades society today, it's just too risky.
How sad is that!?

"culture of blame and peado-hysteria that pervades society today, it's just too risky"

You do realise that a seriously over egged risk assesment is just the other side of the same coin, no?

"peado-hysteria"

"fear of peado accusation hysteria"

You can't create a solution by being part of the problem.

The only way you can combat peado hysteria is by underlining their irrationality in terms of risks/risk aviodance and/or the very iffy nature of enjoying the high drama and adrenaline rush gained from this exaggerated stance and mindset.

Pointing out that their OTT risk assessments and the steps taken to reduce risk are just that. OTT to the power of a very large number.

Cos they are getting things wildly out of proportion.

Underlining to them that given the very small possiblity of such an event occurring, the "aviodence steps" they are taking and the diffusion of their mindset generate a far greater risk of negative fall out for far more adults and kids than any real live peado does. Becuase a fog of sexualised panic and fear is deeply unhealthy.

Exactly the same can be said of the other side of the coin.

And how can we go about combatting the sexualisation of young girls if people insist on shrouding them in an adult fear of their percived level of threat to said adults, in a perverse, sexualised context ?

Not just by people who "risk out" working or volenteering with them, but their own fathers, starting when they are in infancy.

When I read people who are claiming risk in a very over eggy fashion, who are taking out of proportion steps to protect themselves in response to that over egged threat, critising people of "peodo panic"....I have "hello kettle, love pot" ringing in my ears.

I wondered if at the more political/lobbyist/pressure group end of this mindset this stratagy of creating "fear of peado based accusation panic" was deliberatly chosen, based on the concpet of "fighting fire with fire".

If it was it can't be considered the best idea anybody has ever had, cos that technique only works in the hands of the highly skilled professional fire fighter.

When rank amatures try it, it just results in yet more fire.

And more casualties of fire.

It isn't too risky for a man to become a school teacher. How ridiculous. Plenty of men work in schools. Accusations of paedophilia are thankfully actually very rare. Most male teachers don't have this problem and don't spend all day worrying about it either. Many men go into teaching every year. Many of them have successful careers, often going into senior management in schools.

People assume crb checking is all about catching paedophiles. It isn't, it is finding out if you have a criminal record that makes you unsuitable to work with children. More common issues (convicted paedos don't often apply to work in schools) include convictions for violent behaviour or drugs

Risk assessment in schools is more about avoiding minor accidents than anything else. It does get taken too far (think conkers and safety glasses) but paedophilia has next to nothing to do with it.

Look I agree with you Fastweb and in almost all circumstances I would take your stanc. But I would not be happy with DH being soley responsible for a group of young children day in and day out every year until that other side of the coin calms the f*ck down.

Bathing your own child leaves you open to practially zero risk of false accusation. Being left alone every day with the children of parents who have fallen prey to the idea that every man who cares for a child must be a bit pervy is rather more of a risk.

I totally agree that this is not the brave stance to take, but I'm afraid I don't have the courage of my convictions on this one. Similarly I belive that women should be safe to wear whatever they want without fear, but I won't be walking down any dark alleys in my underwear any time soon.

Should probably point out that we are in Aus and there are no teacher's assitants here so teachers are alone with the chilren.

Many teachers in this country are mostly alone with the children, particularly in secondary schools. It is a normal expectation for teachers to work alone with the children. In my experience the teaching assistant often takes small groups of children out of the lesson. I have lessons without a TA much more often than I have the support of a TA in my lesson. I don't go home worrying that some child will accuse me of groping him/her.

What do people think is actually going to take place in a classroom between a teacher and a child with 29 other children present in the same room? Seriously? There is always a teacher in the room next door in any case.

I totally agree that this is not the brave stance to take

But is that not a little "Do as I say, not do as I do?"

What essentially people are asking of the peodo panickers, is to be braver. To not react with fear and utilize that fear to up the ante in terms of risk.

And KatAndKit is right, the risk to male teachers is incredibly low. I've worked with male teachers formthe last 2 decades, my BIL was a secondary school science teacher for over a decade in a very rough couple of schools. Neither of us have ever come across such an accusation against a male teacher. Niether he nor I have had a collegue claiming that they do know of such a case.

CRB is not a "peado test", it is to weed out people who have a criminal background that risks them out of working with the vulnerable. There is emphasis on sex crimes becuase in the past those sorts of people have been known to deliberatly target work with the vulnerable in order to increase their opportunity to offend.

In countries where you don't have a CRB check you can find situations such as a person (a woman to be precise) who was found guilty of extortion via threats to harm small children, CONTINUED to be employed in an elementary school, and then everybody acts all shocked when they go on to terrorise the rest of the staff and assult the children.

Nothing wrong with setting the bar to entry in teaching high enough to exclude people who have form, that indicates they have already proven themselves somewhat unsuited to the job.
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Katandkit - there was a peadophile ring uncovered in a school not far from me (about a year or two ago I think). They had been abusing boys for 30 odd years. I guess if you look for the opportunities they are there.

Fastweb - I aknoweldge that I am not entirely practising what I preach, but I am not willing to put my principles before my concern for my family.
Also, my concern with DH being a teacher would not just relate to false accusations of peadophilia. I am also concerned about false accusations of assualt if DH needed to restrain a child and various other similar types of situations. Unfortunately I belive there are many more parents-afraid-of -peadophiles than there are actual peadophiles, so that is the foundation for our risk assesment.

I'm sure the peado-phobes would use similar reasoning to me to justify their behaviour.