to be fed up with posters on here defending men that are lazy or behave badly?

[Swankyswishing]

I'm fed up with it.

If someone posts that their husband or partner isn't pulling his weight with the children or in the house, replies say things like "Men need praise when they do things right" or "It doesn't come naturally to men, they need to be trained" or "Some men find babies daunting and prefer them when they're older"

Usually if a man isn't pulling his weight it's because he's lazy or a big child. I refuse to pander to my DH and he is expected to pull his weight in the house the same amount that I do. I refuse to make concessions or allow him to behave like an extra child just because he's a man!

Solidgold: I suppose there are some men who do absolutely nothing - but not many. Women moan too much these days, they won't be happy until the man is a domestic slave, works FT, and only wants sex on his birthday.

Yep, cause women hate sex obviously.

Neither DH nor I are off duty until DD is asleep, at which point we both relax. We then take it in turns to see to her if she wakes. While one baths her the other tidies the kitchen and puts dinner stuff away. While one puts her to bed the other gives the dogs their last blast round the block.

It really isn't rocket science. We talked about this before she came along, and agreed that I was happy to be responsible for the majority of day-to-day stuff while DH was at work, so food shopping, doing the washing and tidying up after myself and DD. However it is not my responsibility to do full spring cleans, pick his pants up off the floor (he wouldn't do that anyway as he is an adult) and generally skivvy. I do what I do to make our lives easier as when he finishes work/at weekends etc we have more shared leisure time. He is responsible for all DIY, the garden, cars, the fire, rubbish etc. He hoovers, cooks (better than I do if the truth be known), irons his own shirts...why wouldn't he? He is a grown man who lived alone quite successfully before we met.

He is taking a day off soon to have DD for the day so I can go out and do something (not sure what yet but that is a different story) and has suggested a nursery for DD for a couple of mornings a week to give me a break as I'm pregnant and inceasingly feeling the strain!

Of course I feel lucky to be married to him and make sure he knows that, and vice versa. But I am not lucky to be married to him because he will tidy up after himself and pull his weight in the house because that is standard, that is, or should be the norm.

But it's not just about hobbies. I can't think of many people who don't want some time to have an uninterrupted bath, read a book, surf the net, watch television, go for a walk, see friends without the children in tow or any of the myriad activities that enrich life and aren't work, whether domestic or paid.

It's also not about housework being 'easy' or even the hours that it takes. In most paid jobs, good managers realise that if you ask someone to conduct the same dull but necessary tasks repetitiously, day-in day-out, that person is likely to become bored and resentful. So they spread the dull tasks around the workforce and they become everyone's responsibility.

As for women moaning too much these days, do you think that women only want sex once a year then?

OK, what if you don't have a hobby but you just want to sit down and stare at the wall without the feeling that when you get up you will be faced with stuff someone else has left for you to do?

'Housework is not that hard and it doesn't need several hours a week, when couples arguing about housework there is usually another problem not housework per se.'
So why don't men do more of it, if it's not that hard and takes only a few hours a week?
Answer -- Because housework is a low status occupation. It is a traditionally female occupation (hence its low status). It is repetitive and involves making order out of mess over and over, and having your mind filled with the small and vital details that make a house run smoothly, such as where the clean socks are, how low you are running on milk or toilet paper, instead of having room in your head for things you might prefer occupying that space.

To some extent I agree with you that when couples argue about housework it is usually some other issue they are fighting over: that issue is the power balance. Men and women both know what housework arrangements signify in terms of power, and what it means when it is left to one person to take care of and to the person who doesn't take care of it.

x post with WindsorTides here.

'Women moan too much these days, they won't be happy until the man is a domestic slave, works FT, and only wants sex on his birthday.'

Brought to you by a Daily Mail reader.

What a load of tosh!

An exaggeration maybe - but not a load of tosh.

My dh loves me for my feminine qualities, kindness, compassion - if he'd wanted a hard life he would have married a feminist.

And you think a feminist would have touched him with a bargepole?

Ah they'd love him - he'd buy you a dish washer & everything

I think most feminists would buy their own dishwasher...

And are you saying that ability to do housework is a feminine quality?
Or that kindness and compassion are the exclusive preserve of women?
Or that feminists lack kindness and/or compassion?

I think men moan too much these days. They won't be happy until women forget all this nonsense about being full human beings and go back to accepting their status as second-class people who exist to service their 'betters'.

I'm a feminist.

I'm also kind, compassionate, able to do my own housework, able to do my own DIY, and only make peoples lives hard if absolutely neccessary.

I think your point may just be null and void, rycooler

Where are the men moaning?

Every time a feminist accomplishes something, there'll be a man (or sometimes woman) saying "but you got equality when you got the vote/equal pay/other" OR "if feminists wanted to be useful, they'd be focussing on this/that other"

Ohhh, and there's the whole straw feminist trope, where we depicted as man hating, hairy, fire breathing, frothy, lesbian dragons.

Or, if a woman is outspoken, being a feminist is used as an insult. Usually confuses them when they're greeted with "well, yes, I am a feminist"...

Hi, I only joined today and I am a bit nervous entering this den of mums, I was trying to see if a dad could join but never found a clear answer, so apologies if I should not be here, I am sure I will soon be told.

So what do you want to know about men? I have been there seen it done it, got a 28 and 25 yr old who have moved out and a 9 and 2yr old at home. I am now retired, my wife has a global job so I am at home a lot alone dealing with mother stuff.

As this my first ever post I won't go on too much, but I would certainly appreciate help in some aspects of womanhood. I think women should stay at home and bring up their children, but the country is changing and now women are getting out and about so is family life, for the worse in some cases. Anyway none of us can really change that, so have to getvon with it, I never in my wildest dreams thought I would be at home wiping arses, but you know what, I am loving it, and have gained so much by being so close now to my lovely girls.

Anyone who says that staying at home is a piece of cake, well best they try it, i am constantly tired out as all this woman home work stuff is alien to me, but. I am getting on with it to support my wife and children. I am still trying to come to terms with retirement, it sounds fab, but you know what it is very depressing, you need or should I say men need a purpose in life, so to retire and start doing womens housework is a double stress, hoping I can regain some sanity by learning from you lot and expressing the real feelings of a man at home.

Cheers,

Youllbe -- look up the MRA

Frothy, don't forget the hairy pits.

Manathome, you are dealing with parent stuff and since you are a parent I hope it will be as much of a joy for you as it is for those parents who have a uterus. If you want it to feel less stressful I suggest you start seeing yourself as a useful and contributing member of society in your role, with a purpose in life, if you will.

Manathome, men are more than welcome here.

I don't think needing a purpose in life is relegated (is that the right word) solely to men, however. Your wife's career suggests she needed a purpose in life and found it. I'm currently taking a break from full time education; both the education and the break from education have gone some way to furthering my purpose in life. I may be a mother, but my role is pretty multi dimensional. I also find staying at home with DS can be just as fulfilling as attending protests, volunteering, donating whatever I'm donating, or working.

I think it's time we started valuing the roles involved in being a SAHP, rather than dismissing them and arguing that SAHP's should have all these duties fulfilled by the time DP gets home, so WOHP doesn't have to lift a finger...

math, I did have hairy in there... btw, is there a character limit on usernames? I'm in need of a change

I'm not contributing to society, I'm stuck at home! I am trying to get my head round the fact I don't need to put my suit on in the morning and go to the office, instead I wipe arses, make breakfast, dress kids, make sure all school stuff is together, take 1 to school and other to a nanny who has her all day, I then come home look around and think WTF am I doing here, so dishes, floor cleaning, washing, shopping lists, ironing (yes my wife bought me an ffing iron last christmas, not the handheld ones but a huge thing that you turn on, lay clothes under and then stamp them flat with a bit of a push of a button that makes a cloud of steam, god help you if you have them wonky as they arevthen flattened wonky!) and thinking of what to bake for dinner. I AM GOING MAD!!! This IS NOT what a man was made for! But I am giving it a go.

Where does the time go, before I know what is what it's time to pick the kids up from school, my life is slipping away being lonely at home, I have even started to to the bloody goldfish!!

Off to get my buns in the oven, kids want to ice them later! More bleeding mess!!

Should have been talk to the goldfish, don't know how to edit after posting

You are contributing to society. You're raising your DC. To me, that's a pretty bloody big contribution to society.

No one is made for a role, based on their gender. They're made for a role based on their wishes, desires and mindset.

You know what I could not have happier children, I guess at least I am there for them all the time which is something unfortunately rare with all these women that have gone off to work, leaving children to run wild and have no discipline. I wonder how many women would stay at home if they didn't need to work for the financial pressures that this day and age bring?

The results of this change in family life is clearly seen in the streets on the UK, lawlessness, arrogant and disgustingly behaved children roaming the streets, a lot with no father figure, I just really worry about the results of this change in family life and the produced trash that my children will be mixing with later in life.

I have a very strict military type discipline at home, it is a work hard play hard attitude, and I challenge any person to not see the happiness this has produced and the self discipline and confidence the children now have. I must admit that there is a balance between giving total love as well as discipline, I feel I have got that right, but as for me, I'm the one that is messed up wearing a bloody pinny!

Why are you taking your child to a nanny all day, if you don't mind my asking?

And I am seriously wondering what it is about ironing that makes you think a woman might be made for it, too.

If you are lonely and feeling you have been sidelined, take your baby back from the nanny and get out to the park and playground with her and meet other parents.

Thanks for the questions, re the nanny I didn't think that I had the mothering skills to look after a 2yr old all day, plus at the nannys there is another child which is nice for her, this has given me the chance to get to grips with the woman work things around the home, so much so that I have decided after Christmas to put my daughter in a 5 day a week morning nursery, she has already tried a few mornings and loves it, so from Jan I will have her all afternoon I just need to get a routine worked out because I seem to have no time left in the day after cleaning bathrooms, dishes, bedrooms, making meals, washing, ironing e.t.c. I may just get a cleaner in, best thing

What gets my goat is my wife comes home and says "what have you been doing all day" as she rubs her hand across the top of a picture frame

I also find it hard at the school with the Mum's at the gate, I can't really talk to them as there are a lot of attractive ones and something in me feels like it is chatting them up, I got invited to a Mums lunch a few weeks ago, it scared the life out of me so I didn't go, I don't care what you say, men and women are different, what the hell would I talk to a load of women about over lunch? Best leave them to it!

Nice try mate, but bit of a fail......you must think we were born yesterday.