to be fed up with posters on here defending men that are lazy or behave badly?

[Swankyswishing]

I'm fed up with it.

If someone posts that their husband or partner isn't pulling his weight with the children or in the house, replies say things like "Men need praise when they do things right" or "It doesn't come naturally to men, they need to be trained" or "Some men find babies daunting and prefer them when they're older"

Usually if a man isn't pulling his weight it's because he's lazy or a big child. I refuse to pander to my DH and he is expected to pull his weight in the house the same amount that I do. I refuse to make concessions or allow him to behave like an extra child just because he's a man!

The thing is, this shit doesn't happen in a vacuum. Society has been set up with men as the 'person' class and women as the 'subordinate/property' class.Yes, in the western world and the present day, we allegedly have something close to equality and women are no longer legally property. But the culture of women-as-objects lingers on. Because it;s in men';s interests for it to linger: no one really enjoys doing domestic shitwork, day in, day out, so if you can get someone else to do it by insisting that they are naturally better at it than you because doing it is what they are for then you are going to keep on trying to maintain your status as the one who is serviced rather than the one who does the servicing.

I agree and what makes it even more frustrating is when women collude with this shit, constantly judging other women for countering the culture you describe.

The majority of women who complain about housework are not in paid work though. They choose to stay home and then they come here saying 'i'm not a slave' and the chore starts shouting 'He is lazy, why can't he clean the house after 13 hours work and 2 hours commuting, this is so 1950, he is useless, i wouldn't put up with this'

YANBU, housework, organisation and parenting don't come naturally to me and I'm a woman, and I know some men who are obsessively tidy. I've been shocked at hearing about men who never ever have their children on their own even for a few hours, can't imagine a man would ever tolerate his wife never looking after the dc on her own.

It's all a load of wank. Ladies, set your standards higher ffs and don't settle for this substandard shite. And raise your boys accordingly.

And there was me thinking I was on mumsnet and all the time it was rabidfeministsrus.com...

rabidfeministsrus.com?

We may not be in the feminist section, but there is no need to disrespect us here, either.

If a man has been out at work all day he needs looking after when he comes home - not the Hoover shoved in his hand.
If you both work then I suppose it's different.

I'm a bit of a surrendered wife though.

My test of "unreasonable" here is:

• How old are the DCs?
• Is OP home during the week?
• How long are DH's work hours/commute?

If the answers are "young", "works" and "short" then YAVNBU. If it is "at school, at home, and long" then YABVU.

Small Print: Special conditions may apply on a case by case basis.

ionysus are you a "surrendered wife"

you talk like one

ha, didn't see ry's post before I typed

at least you admit it

YANBU

My dad brilliant, does half the housework, shopping and cooking.

My kids dad is the exact opposite. I never seen him strike a bat.

I don't think expecting a man to do his fair share of shitwork and child care in his own home and with his own children to be "rabid feminism"

I reckon it makes you sound a bit, well, stupid if you think that, and even more so if you kick against "feminism" which simply attempts to convince women they are not an underclass (in the face of much opposition)

it seems odd to me that women would embrace being an underclass and treat anyone who says "you don't have to do that" with suspicion, mistrust and derision

it takes all sorts, I suppose

Fifi, you can change that, y'know?

It's about people, male and female, doing their fair share in life. If I just wanted money, I'd go out and earn it, but a partnership means we are, well, partners, not master and servant.

Anyfucker: this isn't a 'male v female' thing, not for me anyway.
If I was living with a woman I'd look after her when she came home - no relationship should have a work rota pinned to the wall - where's the romance in that? - I'm in a relationship - not the army.

I'm an adult, I don't see someone 'looking after' me as romantic, but as infantalising me. No, thanks!

I had a boyfriend once who kept telling me, 'You need someone to look after you.' I was 32 years old and living on my own. A little voice in my head kept saying, 'No, you don't. You've been managing perfectly well for the past 14 years.' I should have listened to that voice! He was controlling and emotionally abusive.

Dont, i did, hence he is now the kids dad not the DP.

Glad to hear it, fifi

rycooer, that may work for you, and I'm not criticising that. But where's the romance in the relationships where the wife doesn't feel happy being a "surrendered wife"? Where's the romance in one of the partners feeling pretty fucked off at being the only one who does anything around the house, ever?

I'm astonished that there are people that go on about their husbands doing a long day/commute and then not wanting to give them a hoover. WTF do you think I've been doing all day looking after the children (not all at school). It would be lovely if one night I could sit down and DH put the kids to bed and cook dinner. That would only happen if I shouted rather alot, bought all the ingredients needed for dinner and wanted dinner at about 9pm . Let me know the solution other than divorce. I blame his parents too.

I used to be in the same camp as you. I still am, to an extent. DP sees/smells dirt, waahing up, washing, ironing, nappies just as well as I do. He can cook, clean and raise children as well as I can. We are both lazy at times and that is that.

DP does all of the above but not daily. On the days he doesn't do those things I pick up the slack and vice versa. I don't treat him as 'a poor little man' just as I don't expect to be treated as a slave or 'just a woman'.

Alas, there are days we are both lazy and he does the things I should have done/said I would do.

ry do what you wanna do

but if you look at the title of this thread, it is a gendered thing, for this discussion anyway

the OP was talking about "lazy men"

out of respect for her, so am I

Men married to surrendered wives have an awful habit of surrendering said wives when someone else comes along.