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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to be fed up with posters on here defending men that are lazy or behave badly?

278 replies

Swankyswishing · 24/10/2011 11:32

I'm fed up with it.

If someone posts that their husband or partner isn't pulling his weight with the children or in the house, replies say things like "Men need praise when they do things right" or "It doesn't come naturally to men, they need to be trained" or "Some men find babies daunting and prefer them when they're older"

Usually if a man isn't pulling his weight it's because he's lazy or a big child. I refuse to pander to my DH and he is expected to pull his weight in the house the same amount that I do. I refuse to make concessions or allow him to behave like an extra child just because he's a man!

OP posts:
rycooler · 25/10/2011 19:04

If he works FT and you're at home all day then you do the housework.
Stick the kids in front of Cbeebies for an hour and tidy up. If I was the working parent and dh was a stay at home dad, I'd expect to come home to a reasonably tidy house - and at least something resembling a dinner waiting for me. I'd be a bit pissed off if I came home to a tip and a pot noodle, with him tapping away on dadsnet.

I agree with WMW said too - it's all about the situation.

SansaLannister · 25/10/2011 19:06

Ry Cooder is sooooo much cooler . . .

DontCallMeFrothyDragon · 25/10/2011 19:12

I tidy up after DS goes to bed...

Tidying up before then means it gets messy again almost straight after...

Luckily, no DP here, so I don't have to worry about his judgey pants, but I still manage a proper cooked meal for DS.

Being a SAHP doesn't mean you do nothing, btw. Even if you're not doing housework...

littlemisssarcastic · 25/10/2011 19:25

Haven't read the whole thread, but I hear more people defending men IRL, and it gets right on my tits.
Only today, a woman I vaguely know in passing was asking after DD's father, how is he etc etc. I said I didn't know, we are not together anymore, to which she replied...awww at least you don't have to put up with his smelly socks and wet bath towels on the floor anymore.
I replied 'I never had a problem like that with XP, he did loads of housework/washing/cooking/gardening etc, it was the rest of him I couldn't handle.
She then said...in all seriousness...'That would set alarm bells off for me if a man helped around the house...my DH doesn't know how to turn the washing machine on, it would be very strange to be with a man who did. I'd be very wary of him.'
Why would it unnerve anyone if a man wanted to do his fair share of chores?

I had to remind myself to close my mouth. I think I looked like Shock.

I have heard so many women, usually those in unsatisfactory relationships who say 'Ahhh that's men for you...bless them.' Seems if you expect a man to be incapable of anything domestic, you settle for a lazy arse because you think that is what all men are like. Very sad.

ionysis · 25/10/2011 19:35

AnyPhantomFucker Tue 25-Oct-11 17:14:27
ionysus are you a "surrendered wife"

you talk like one

Ha ha! I'm not sure what a "surendered wife" is! I work FT and my H is mostly a SAHD who works PT as his own boss when the baby is at nursery. I do zero housework but all the cooking and manage the finances. He does all the housework and is far beter at it than I could ever be.

But regardless of which of us do the work an how our "gender roles" are conformative or otherwise my main concern is that I try to be considerate to his feelings, patient with the things which annoy me and respectful when I try to address issues - even when I feel I am 100% in the right and he is being a complete PITA - because I expect the same back when I am periodically being an unreasonable, miserable, irrational, lazy, selfish old harridan - as we ALL are sometimes - male or female.

That's how you stay married. Its how you stay employed. Its how you keep friends.

ionysis · 25/10/2011 19:38

Personally I know many women who are very happy wth their OH not getting involved in domestic duties because they actively enjoy their contribution and feeling "needed". I don't patronise them for feeling that way nor ridicule them for wanting to conduct their marriage based on traditional gender roles. If it works for their marriage that's great.

rycooler · 25/10/2011 19:42

Exactly ionysis - dh would get on my wick if he kept wanting to do the ironing.

DontCallMeFrothyDragon · 25/10/2011 19:47

I'd have been relieved if the ex-P had even offered to do the ironing....

Charbon · 25/10/2011 20:27

I think a couple of you have been taking the disgraceful 'Daz' advert too seriously and some of this is almost comical. Since when did someone's ability to do the housework mean that they were meeting their partner's needs? My partner values the unique things I bring to our marriage that are about me as a person, not my ability to clean floors and iron shirts. Shock

SolidGoldVampireBat · 25/10/2011 20:39

Look, it's very very easy to work out. When you live in a heteromonogamous relationship, both partners should have the same amount of leisure time. That's leisure time ie time spent pursuing hobbies, seeing friends, having a long bath or just going for a walk alone with your thoughts. Anything else means that one partner is treating the other as the servant.

fastweb · 25/10/2011 21:10

both partners should have the same amount of leisure time

I think that sounds like a very sensible way of going about it.

As long as I still get to keep the rule about me not doing any task that involves incurring the attention of massive flocks of blood thirsty mosquitoes as well.

DontCallMeFrothyDragon · 25/10/2011 21:13

What SGB said.

ionysis · 25/10/2011 21:16

Surely this holds true for polygamous, homomonogamous and other relationships too???

AnyPhantomFucker · 25/10/2011 21:58

That's how you stay married. Its how you stay employed. Its how you keep friends.

I have been happily married for 18 years

I have a responsible job in a career I worked very hard for

I have a wide circle of friends

What exaxctly is it I am doing wrong, ionysus

SolidGoldVampireBat · 25/10/2011 23:12

Ionysis: True. However, alternative relationships start from a position of non-traditional expectations and therefore don't have the cultural undertow of woman-is-man's-servant that causes problems in heteromonogamous ones, particularly when the man is the only one in paid employment.

mathanxiety · 25/10/2011 23:27

'The ones who scream "leave" or "abuse" at every small quibble or moan posted seem to be women who have either been in abusive relationships and so see ALL relationships as potentially abusive if even the slightest thing is wrong or those who are single / divorced / separated and are desperate to justify their choices and get others to validate them claiming "its better to be single than in a "bad relationship".'

Yikes. Now there's a one-sided view of MN if ever there was one. Not much effort to see another pov there. Dismissal of the hard-won wisdom of other women, and patronisation by the shedload front and centre instead.

'As soon as you start asking WHY the other person appears to be being a dick you get to the heart of the problem. If you just focus on the bad behaviour itself and set yourself up as the enemy it will never get resolved. Which is more important - being right or fixing the issue?'

Yes you do get to the heart of the problem. And the problem, 99% of the time, is not yours to solve, any more than it would be up to a man to solve the problems of a wife or partner who didn't do a tap around the house and who went out drinking all weekend and left him with small children after he had put in 12-14 hour days all week. He would be mad and he would be right, and if she didn't want to acknowledge he was right and change, then he would have a perfect right to spare his children the experience of a mother like that, cut his and their losses, and move on. The truth doesn't always lie somewhere in the middle and being right matters. There is an objective right. It's not always fuzzy and grey.

The pov of both partners in any given relationship is equally valid to the extent that both have a right to their opinions. It is not the responsibility of one or the other to be the one always making allowances or trying to be the fixer.

cory · 25/10/2011 23:30

I've been in the same relationship for close on 30 years. But I always assumed that was because dh treated me like an equal and pulled his weight. I don't have to be married. Though as things are- I quite like it Wink

AnyPhantomFucker · 25/10/2011 23:40

cory, that counts too, of course Smile

SolidGoldVampireBat · 26/10/2011 00:31

I still think there isn't nearly enough 'Leave the bastard!' on here. What little there is still has to struggle against the intense cultural pressure on women to 'work at the relationship' eat shit, 'give him a chance' eat shit 'think of the children eat shit and generally never forget that women exist to service men and can't possibly live without being under the control of one because.. well... because... a woman who refuses to eat shit dumps an unsatisfactory man Give Other Women Ideas. Like, maybe, they don't have to put up with mistreatment just so as not to be single, because being single is not a bad thing.

ionysis · 26/10/2011 06:30

What exaxctly is it I am doing wrong, ionysus

Nothing as far as I know. Why? Have I ever suggested you WERE doing anything wrong?

Wamster · 26/10/2011 08:34

The leisure time thing makes perfect sense. If a man works 40 hours a week, the woman does not work, and by 'work' I do include being a carer -which is very much real work, then of course she should do all the bloody housework. Seriously, it won't even take her 40 hours-unless she is super fussy!! So she will still be left with plenty of spare time.
To be honest, in this situation, it is the men who are taken the pee out of.

But when the couple BOTH work full time, then it is a different matter. And women are getting pissed off with going out to work all day and having to do the chores every night as well. You come in, want to watch a bit of telly and have a glass of wine, but, no, you can't because you've got to put a load in the machine, cook, and do the washing up/load dishwasher.

Resentment builds quite fast, and, frankly, women get pissed off. They have the financial resources to leave and feel confident in their ability to cope, so they get out. The excitement has gone and all that is in place is drudgery.
It's obvious to me that the divorce rate is going to rise in tandem with women's financial independence unless men do their share around the home.

I don't see that it makes any difference if couple are cohabiting/married, though, society still expects people to fulfill the same roles whatever their legal status. Such things only matter if you split up/die.

I think to believe that cohabitation is somehow more equitable and fair is to be mistaken. Single means not living with a man, not a legal status.

rycooler · 26/10/2011 09:18

My dh has never done much around the house - in 20 years he's never hoovered, cleaned the bathroom, cleaned the windows, bla bla bla (meh) - in fact, all he's ever done is go food shopping, cook, and wash up. We've been happily married for 20 years. I married him for his personality, he's a great father, funny, kind, and hardworking - I like being around him. The fact that he doesn't 'do much around the house' has never bothered me - or even crossed my mind. I'm happy enough with him to not look for faults. I've got loads of my own.

ionysis · 26/10/2011 10:06

^
LIKE

SolidGoldVampireBat · 26/10/2011 11:34

Rycooler: So your domestic arrangements suit you - great. No one is going to come round with a clipboard and a stopwatch and insist you divide tasks up in a different way.
But the issue for a lot of women is men who do fuck all and expect sex on top of domestic service, despite the woman asking for a bigger contribution to domestic work - even for the man to put his plate in the sink occasionally and not leave shitty pants on the floor.
This is not even a matter of the SAHP doing more actual domestic work than the WOHP. It's a problem when the WOHP does nothing at home, returns from work and a) expects to be waited on b) expects to spend the weekend pursuing hobbies 'because I work hard all week' while the SAHP is doing childcare and chores 24/7 with no time off, in exchange for his/her keep and nothing else.

VelvetBag · 26/10/2011 12:01

SolidGold to be fair some of the women who post here don't want to have hobbies or to go out and resent the dh who does. There is nothing wrong with doing a hobby after a week of hard work (after you wash your clothes and load the dishwasher). Housework is not that hard and it doesn't need several hours a week, when couples arguing about housework there is usually another problem not housework per se. Some women do expand it too much.