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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to have just realised that I have been sexual assaulted many times

518 replies

PippiLongBottom · 23/10/2011 22:37

I had extremely large breasts as a young teen. I was a 30DD at 13 and my size 8 hour glass figure was very popular with the boys Hmm.

At 19 I had my breasts reduced on the NHS because my head was fucked.

It is only with many years of hindsight (I am 36) thanks to Mumsnet and a recently developed feminist perspective that I realise that all the 'incidents' that happened to me were sexual assaults/grooming and not my fault.

I have fb'd one of the cuntslprits tonight.

OP posts:
duckdodgers · 24/10/2011 12:28

I absolutely abhor the belief that it a women clothes that are somehow to blame for being raped. This is just an excuse to deflect responsibility from the rapist. I would really really hope that in the legal profession this is not used by defence lawyers still in this day and age.

flippinada · 24/10/2011 12:29

LyingWitch I don't read the 'sorry that happened to you' as meaningless.

It's a way of saying to someone that you acknowledge what happened, you have 'listened' (wrong word to use on a talkboard perhaps) to them and saying that you are sorry they had that awful experience.

Sometimes people appreciate just being heard/listened to.

onefatcat · 24/10/2011 12:30

squeaky is the voice of reason.

I don't really see how I have said anything that is not really reasonable. Maybe I am not expressing my views well? Some people don't seem able to see a different point of view without shouting and stamping and swearing at the person they disagree with.

I think you can educate men and boys that casual sexual harassment such as that displayed in schools, and pubs etc is not ok.

However, I don't think that serious assaults and abuse in the home and relationships will be really helped by education alone. I still think that girls need to be helped to recognise and avoid and understand when their rights are being violated. An abuser must know they are in the wrong and seriously hurting their victim- educating them isn't going to stop them or make them never start- there will always be people that abuse others.

Whatmeworry · 24/10/2011 12:30

Don't kid me that women enjoy dressing in cheapo bits of polyester and glitter and getting letched at by sub-standard men. I'm sure that some will come on here to tell me that I Am Wrong but if they look deep enough, they know that they only think that they enjoy it

I think that describes nearly the entire young (and not so young) womanhood of the UK on a weekend night.

Its clearly a shitty job, but someone has to do it :o

flippinada · 24/10/2011 12:32

Yes women do abuse too duckdogers. I know this from personal experience.

But I also think it's ok to talk about women's experience of sexual assault etc without having to say, look this happens to men as well and women also do it.

duckdodgers · 24/10/2011 12:33

flippinada "Sometimes people appreciate just being heard/listened to."

Very very true. This is the first step in therapy to for people to tell their "story".

windsorTides · 24/10/2011 12:37

Actually, it's perfectly reasonable to question the hen/stag night culture and wonder whether that's really what you want to do, or whether you are bowing to peer pressure. The same could be said for men who according to most posters who start threads about it, seem to feel pressurised by their mates to visit lapdancing clubs and reluctantly have private dances bought for them by the best man.

So we have hen nights where women dress up as porn stars, in physically uncomfortable outfits and stag nights where men "treat" themselves to sexual contact with a stranger who's also wearing an uncomfortable outfit, but who needs to look 'sexy' or she won't get hired or paid.

And you can't see the inequality or the sexual politics in that, or that it's worth questioning?

duckdodgers · 24/10/2011 12:40

Yes of course flipping but its all relevant when you think about education because we are thinking about the whole issue of abuse here and simply targeting boys at school for example I feel is wrong. You can also educate till your blue in the face - sadly it doesnt mean people will always listen.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 24/10/2011 12:40

I guess I don't like the phrase because there used to be a poster who would say it to somebody straight after slamming the same person for their post. I could almost hear the gritted teeth and when it was said to me, it didn't mean much. The poster hadn't been listening just ranting away themselves.

That doesn't mean that I don't think there are some very lovely, empathetic women on MN who really do have the knack of knowing what to say to bring comfort to somebody in pain.

I hope that's clearer now. I was thinking aloud (and shouldn't have been) about the phrase, that's all.

porcamiseria · 24/10/2011 13:04

I dont really understand what the OP wants? I am not undermining what happended to her. But why is she upset now?

I always said that the time I got the most sexual attention from men was when I was a 14 year old schoolgirl, sad but true! and its true that large breasted girls do get hassled at school (I got called SLAG, even though I was virgin)

I think OP needs to take some action to "complete" and resolve this area of her past, and if that entials FB some of the twats so be it

flippinada · 24/10/2011 13:05

IKWYM about educating duckdogers but we have to start somewhere.

For me the problem is that this attitude seems to be endemic. We have a a culture where minoir assaults are regarded as part of life, where women are routinely objectified, where it's seen as ok/acceptable to buy someone else's body as a treat for yourself (yuck).

At least if this stuff is being taught in school it's a start.

LyingWitch I can quite understand why you wouldn't like it if you see it being used in a dismissive way. I don't like that either - it's rude.

KRITIQ · 24/10/2011 13:07

I think we can all struggle a bit with words when discussing an issue like this. Discussions here have caused me to reflect back on things that happened decades ago and recognise that how I made sense of things back then is quite different than I would now. Sometimes, we rationalise stuff just to get through, to survive, to save ourselves more pain, because others tell us not to make a big deal or because we don't actually know any other way to deal with it at the time.

I suppose not everyone may be yet "at the place" where they can feel okay enough to look back on things and not feel the hurt rushing back, and that's actually okay. But, even when you haven't got to that stage, or you genuinely haven't had any experience of sexual assault, harassment, etc., then it does help to step back a little and think how the things you say and way you say them could be very hurtful for someone who is more directly affected by the issues in the here and now.

worraliberty · 24/10/2011 13:08

Windsor it wasn't being 'questioned'...the poster came right out and said if they look deep enough, they know that they only think that they enjoy it

That's not questioning...that is claiming to know what goes on in other women's minds and is totally ridiculous.

stellarpunk · 24/10/2011 13:14

This is a very interesting and thought provoking thread. Pippi, I'm sorry for what you have experienced and I hope that you can access help and support if you feel you need it.

Like many, I too have been sexually assaulted over the years. U

Usually breasts being touched, bum being groped. Once had my skirt pulled completely off in a bar.

It's endemic isn't it? In fact, I would ask which woman hasn't experienced this at one stage?

Whatmeworry · 24/10/2011 13:20

And you can't see the inequality or the sexual politics in that, or that it's worth questioning

Tell you what I could see there - catsbumface puritanism masquerading as faux feminism.

slightlymad72 · 24/10/2011 13:28

I suppose not everyone may be yet "at the place" where they can feel okay enough to look back on things and not feel the hurt rushing back, and that's actually okay. But, even when you haven't got to that stage, or you genuinely haven't had any experience of sexual assault, harassment, etc., then it does help to step back a little and think how the things you say and way you say them could be very hurtful for someone who is more directly affected by the issues in the here and now.

Agree, it doesn't take long to reread what you have written and think 'Could this be worded better/differently' there have been so many posts on here, that could have been posted innocently but have caused hurt, distress and in my case anger, that a few seconds of paying attention to the detail and content it could have been easily avoided.

KRITIQ · 24/10/2011 13:30

WTAF do you mean by "catsbumface puritanism masquerading as faux feminism?"

I'm most certainly not a puritan in terms of my social values or views on sex, but I most certainly can see the inequality and sexual politics in the post from windsor above. Whether it's hen or stag parties, it seems increasingly that the "role" to be played by women is as sexualised objects. My SIL's sister's hen party included pole dancing lessons and the next weekend her husband to be and friends were paying other women to pole dance (and other things) for them. Doncha geddit?

AnyPhantomFucker · 24/10/2011 13:33

WMW I can see your agenda poking out again

zip up, love, won't you ?

Wooooooooooooooppity · 24/10/2011 13:33

Um, the discussion about recognising abusers and how to get women away from abusive relationships and their self esteem etc., is interesting, but um, the OP wasn't talking about abusive relationships.

She was talking about abusive men feeling free to assault her when she was young. If I walk along the street and some bloke grabs my breast or slaps my arse, it's not because my self-esteem is low or I have no self-confidence. It's because he believes that he is entitled to do that and that there will be no negative consequences for him.

All the self-esteem raising in the world, won't tackle that. So we have to tackle that.

Isn't that blindingly obvious or am I not seeing a great big obstacle that so many feminist-haters see? Is it that you think men are so awful, that we can't possibly educate them out of these horrible attitudes? And you have the cheek to call feminists man-haters, when you say that we can't tackle men's abusive attitudes? Why? Because you think they're so deeply ingrained htat there's nothing to be done about them? Or what? Seriously, why is there this immense resistance to the suggestion that we tackle the root cause of the problem of sexual harassment, instead of just tinkering around at the edges? Do you think men will be immune to the message that women are full human beings and that they don't have the right to assault or threaten them? Have you ever thought of examining your own negative beliefs about men, instead of kneejerking about feminists being man-haters? Seriously?

Whatmeworry · 24/10/2011 13:34

Don't kid me that women enjoy dressing in cheapo bits of polyester and glitter and getting letched at by sub-standard men. I'm sure that some will come on here to tell me that I Am Wrong but if they look deep enough, they know that they only think that they enjoy it

That is what I meant by "catsbumface puritanism masquerading as faux feminism"

begonyabampot · 24/10/2011 13:35

stellarpunk - I'd imagine nearly every woman has experienced some kind of attention/assault like has been mentioned, when you think about how widespread it is, it's really quite serious. I've had numerous situations like groping etc, luckily I was able to shrug them off though one or two could have turned quite nasty and potentially very serious.

porcamiseria · 24/10/2011 13:36

But many boys also would have had the shit kicked out of them when young also, some of the voilent bullying boys can experience when young is pretty vile too.

worth mentioning I think

onefatcat · 24/10/2011 13:38

I can see where you are coming from, and I agree, women don't seem to be seen as any less of a sexual object than they were in the past, often it actually seems more so (although often in a tongue in cheek sort of way). The biggest change I see in society, though, in recent decades is that rather than women being seen as more equal to men in terms of sexuality, we are doing the same to men in terms of making them sexual object- eg male strippers, naked posters, half naked sexy male dancers, etc

Whatmeworry · 24/10/2011 13:40

WMW I can see your agenda poking out again

AnyPhantom, my "Agenda" such as it is , is very simple - ie that for any approach to this fix this problem to work, it has to have 3 things going:

  • that boys and men should be educated
  • that (especially young) women should be given as much self esteem and self confidence as early as possible, as so much seems to occur when they are younf and inexperienced
  • that they should be taught to recognise the signs, and how to take avoiding action.

And it is my belief that any woman has the right to wear what she wants, when she wants, without getting groped by horny males or accused of not seeing the sex politics of her choice by other women

If you have a problem with that agenda, please let me know where.

love....

nellyjane · 24/10/2011 13:44

OP - I'm curious - did the bloke you facebooked have the guts to reply to you?